What part of “I can’t do it again” he does not understand?!

[bluepetal]

To cut the story short to avoid boring you with too many details. DH and I, we have been together over 15 years, went through a lot together and I thought nothing can possibly put a wedge between us. Naïve, eh? Four years ago we started trying for a baby, we have one wonderful daughter, she is now 10 y.o. and we always wanted to have another sibling but with moving countries, settling in, surviving without extended family support, having another child just wasn't easy, so we started trying later than we actually wanted. No problem getting pregnant but four miscarriages in a row over the last three years, the second one was particularly bad, without dramatising it too much – I thought I would die in ER. Two following MCs ended up with D&C as I was with fertility centre at that time.
I am turning 40 this year. Last mc happened a year ago and it took me a while to recover, I’ve been a broken woman since. Every visit to the fertility centre triggers me, I changed the centre but it didn't really help. Last summer I got depressed, I am still struggling, it is like a cloud of darkness always behind my back that I am trying to push away and there are days when it gets really close again. I have panic attacks, debilitating migraines, and thoughts of self-harm – all got worse after the last mc. I am really working hard to keep myself in a good shape. On the outside I am a happy accomplished woman – researcher, artist, educator, a good friend and a mother. Lately, I’ve been coping quite well and the most helpful thing for me was to accept that this is it and I won’t be trying again. The moment I understood that I can stop it if I want to, I felt better. The grief didn’t go away, it is there, but I’ve learned how to live with the grief and the memory of the losses.
I have no more strength in me to try again – not in my soul, not in my body. I have no will to try again. I’ve been pushing myself too hard on too many fronts. I’ve always been one of those people who believed that you ought to keep fighting until you win or until you die. The past year has changed me. I understood that sometimes the best thing is to accept defeat in dignity. Paradoxically it may sound but accepting defeat has made me stronger. The moment I allowed myself not to fight any more I felt I started healing. I cannot try any more, if I have another loss it may just finish me, if I happen to have a baby I don’t feel I have enough strength in me for raising another child. Not at the moment.
In a way I am a different person now and this person does not want to have a baby. I feel I am stretched to my limits. I thought DH would understand. But apparently, he thinks about this process (getting pregnant, monitoring, D&C) as a series of mechanical tasks, where if you failed once, you can always try again. He thinks this is something I should “get over” with and try again. I understand, it breaks his heart to accept that we will not have another child, he still believes that there is that magical “one more time” that will just work. Our relationships are getting strained because he is not accepting my decision and I cannot accept him… I feel betrayed. He, who was by my side in my darkest moments, how come he does not understand I CANNOT do it again. Today I nearly called him “selfish bastard”, which I actually think he is in this situation. I am feeling so rotten. Is this the end of what once was a great, passionate and supportive relationship? We’ve done so many things together, we had so much fun together, we adore our daughter and she is such a happy joyful child. We had been such a great team. I guess, if he cannot accept my decision – then this is it. But maybe it is me who is a selfish bitch? I feel so angry about trying again. I don’t want this again, I don’t want any interference with my body any more, not if I can avoid it. I am angry at him for asking me to try again, to the point I can’t stand the sight of him. He doesn't understand it and I don’t understand what part of “I cannot do this again” he doesn't get.
Thank you for taking your time to read it. Any words of wisdom would be much appreciated.

I don't think you are selfish at all. I think you have given your all to the cause and have decided enough is enough.

His approach is all well and good but where does it end? How many times would he want you to go through it?

You have talked of an otherwise great relationship, tell him he is putting everything at risk if he refuses to accept your decision because by refusing to accept it he is also refusing to a knowledge the pain and suffering you have endured. That is causing resentment and resentment is a relationship killer.

Gosh that sounds very hard Blue and I'm so sorry for all that you've been through.

It sounds to my very amateur brain that you have thought this through very sensibly and have a lot of insight.

I am sure it is all still very raw and apinful for both of you. On the face of it it feels as though he is being selfish but he may need to go through that same acceptance that you have found but isn't there yet.

Could you agree to have a set period of time where you don't discuss it at all, a week, a month? Then when you come back to it you may both have the headspace to be calm and discuss it with him really listening to how you feel.

I don't know, it might not be the answer but I doubt anythng much will come from the current back and forth. FWIW I totally get what you mean about accepting that this is how it is and not wanting anymore intervention. I haven't been through that but it makes total sense to me. Ultimately it is never going to be a good situation if you feel pressured in to trying again. If the worse happens and you MC again you are going to feel a whole world of resentment towards him.

I hope that helps a tiny bit. I am sure people with more wisdom will come along soon. I think you sound very brave

You need to be very straight with him: you are exhausted and very unhappy.
Any more of this will make you so unhappy you wouldn't be able to face getting out of bed in the morning.
You are not a machine you are a human being with emotions and feelings and doing this process is jeopardizing what you have with a small possibility of getting something you now no longer even want.

If he can't "get" that, then he must be very out of touch with his feelings. Does he want to go on because he doesn't want to be seen to have failed?
It is beyond personal pride now, it is just a pure human need for you to not go through any more pain.
He has to respect your feelings as it is you who is being ground down, feelings are not logical and they cannot just be "fixed".

Hi blue petal. I am now pregnant after 3mcs and a chemical pregnancy. I know some women have the mindset to keep dusting themselves off and to try again as again. The amazing repeat mc message board is testament to that. It takes courage to keep going, but I think it takes just as much courage to stop. Had this one not stuck, I am pretty sure I would have stopped. The quest to have a child took over for three years of my life. Everything else went on hold. Nothing else mattered. I was miserable for much of it. Perhaps tty talking about what you are missing out on by keeping trying, like being able to plan holidays, putting all your energies into your dc, not living by the grinding fertility cycle.

Print out your very eloquent post bluepetal and then give it to your DH and ask him to go into a room on his own and read it.

I think I would be like your DH and reading your post would move me and help me understand the situation.

One of the hardest things about fertility treatment and miscarriage is that you go through them as a couple but it's physiologically so different for both parties. As a woman, you have the physical turmoil of having this happen to your body, on top of the emotional impact. Your partner is obviously deeply connected to events (I'm not for a second suggesting that men don't suffer horribly in these situations as well), but he just doesn't have the same physical relationship to it.

And let's face facts here: what has happened to you is a deep, deep trauma. One miscarriage is terrible - four in a row is unimaginably awful. It would be surprising if you did not feel that you'd been hit by a truck after such a difficult time, you poor love.

I honestly think that your partner is minimising what has happened. I'm not sure that makes him a bastard - it may be that he is himself scared of facing the amount of grief and loss that you've been through, and that continuing the cycle makes him feel less final about it. I would definitely suggest seeing a counsellor together in order to process what has happened to you, and how you feel about it. It may be that you will also need individual help.

Yes, I also wonder whether some kind of outside support would help. Many sympathies, OP, I've been somewhere similar and for all his efforts I don't think DH ever really understood the wretchedness of it. For you. I hope you can find a way through togetherness.

Sorry, together.

I don't know if I have any words of wisdom but wanted to ..... I don't know ..... tell you that IMO you're not a selfish bitch. What you feel is what you feel and I think it'd be disastrous to try for another baby when your previous experiences put you in a very bad place - understandably.

I've had 4 miscarriages too - so can completely understand how devastating it can be ..... the first one was bad enough, but each subsequent pregnancy (until it ended) was quite literally terrifying. It felt like a waiting game - which it was, as it turned out, and it was a horrible, stressful time - despite being pregnant, which was what I wanted.

It took me a long time to 'get over' all of that - particularly as I got older and started to realise another child almost certainly wasn't going to happen. I was so so angry and couldn't fathom what I'd done to 'deserve' it (which sounds very petulant). But at some point, it did begin to dawn on me that not being pregnant again did mean that I wouldn't have to go through that stomach twisting fear again - nor the devastation when I miscarried. I'm still not 100% 'okay' about what happened, but I think I have come to terms with it. I think I recognised the beginnings of that acceptance (i.e. not having another child) when the thought of another pregnancy was more frightening than exciting IYSWIM ?

This is a big big thing for many women in this sort of situation - and although it might be a bit of a sweeping generalisation I do think it's hard for many men to truly appreciate how it feels. How can they, exactly, when it's not their bodies experiencing the changes, the effect of hormones and the pain (plus the (pointless?) anger at your body for letting you down!) ?

On the other hand, I'm sure you do appreciate and feel for your DH if he still wants another child, because until relatively recently you were in the same position. I'm sure when you miscarried, he did grieve, as you did - the loss of the child you imagined who you'd never know, the future as you tried to plan it totally changed etc. But I'm not so sure he'd have felt quite the same devastation in the same way - however sympathetic he was and however much he took care of you - because it's literally impossible to for him to feel what was going on in both your body and mind. Doh - I don't know if I'm articulating this properly ......

I think, at the end of the day and regardless of the circumstances behind you getting to the point you're at now, (and sorry, I don't mean to be insensitive by saying that) you're facing a black and white situation because having another baby - or not - isn't a decision you can compromise on. It must be so upsetting to be at this crossroad now because it does sound as if you have a really good relationship otherwise - so yes, when you believe you're a team and suddenly the other half of it doesn't 'get' you it must feel like a betrayal. Trouble is, with his 'man head' on - the one which thinks creating a baby is a series of mechanical tasks - there's every possibility he thinks the same about you! Don't get me wrong, I totally see your point of view - but clearly he doesn't, and I don't know how you get him to do that, or at least graciously accept that if he wants to be with you then this is one thing he'll have to trust you on, after all, it's only you who can actually become pregnant.

The only thing I can suggest - if you both want to remain together - is to at least try counselling together in the hope of both of you finding some sort of peace about it all. Sounds like you're doing a pretty good job of putting yourself in a 'good' place already ...... but that's something he's going to have to find a way of doing too if your relationship continues. It sounds a bit harsh to say what's more important - you and your emotional well being (plus the family as it exists now) or another baby which could bring you right down again one way or another, even if you carry to term I'd say it wouldn't be wise to try if you don't feel strong enough to raise another child - that's something everyone should be totally committed to obviously so IMO it's brave to acknowledge not feeling up to it. However, that is what it effectively boils down to ... a good counsellor would help him realise this, and come to terms with it (hopefully) ahead of either of you making a decision to split up because you want different things.

Sorry I can't suggest anything more useful.

I am going to say the same as DrM. Show your husband your post

Dear wise and kind people out there whose faces and names I will never know...Thank you so much for your words and support. You made me cry with very healing tears. I appreciate each and every word. I will follow the advice showing DH the post and perhaps responses as well, as they explain what I had tried to explain him before, but every time just got so emotional and couldn't follow through. Sending lots of love to all of you, wherever you are and whoever you are...you too stay strong throughout your storms and battles...

Protecting the emotional and physical well being of the only mother your daughter has, is the exact opposite of a selfish act.

You can not change your husband's beliefs on this, that's his choice and responsibility. However, if this is a deal breaker for you, you are entitled to say it is. Given his personality, he might benefit from professional support on his journey to acceptance.

Oh and for the record, you have not failed, you were just unlucky.

Take care of yourself.

Hi bluepetal. So sorry for all you've been through. I understand a little bit of what you're going through from my own experiences though I didn't have nearly as much trauma. For what it's worth, I think you are right to say No More. I'm sure if it your husband who had gone through all that or that it was his turn next (if only that could happen) he would be calling time too. My OH got very angry when I said I wouldn't want IVF and would want to stop ttc at that point. I thought Thanks for deciding what my body will go through. Bloody men!

It would be very hard I know, but could you write him a letter where you spell out everything that happened in each and every miscarriage in all the horrible details, everything you felt emotionally and physically and how you are still feeling now. Then ask him at the end of the letter, if that had all happened to him not you, would he want to go through that again? You poor thing, I really feel for you. I hope he sees it. But even if he doesn't, it doesn't mean he gets his way. All the risk is on you, you get to decide. All the best, sending a hug and

Hi Petal.

Such fab words above.

Do you think you have moved to 'I am not doing it again' yet?

At the end of the day it is your body that has been through all this harrowing torture, and you have every right to just stop.

It's so easy for him to say, 'let's keep trying'. The impact on him physically (if not mentally and emotionally) is zero.

The impact on you mentally, emotionally, and physically is back-breaking.

I cannot believe any person could be so unempathetic as your husband is seemingly being.

You are dealing with, well, I won't spell it out as it would be far too upsetting. He has no idea. Clearly. It's not his body going though this, time after time.

I am so sorry. We had six miscarriages in a row and when I couldn't do it any more, I knew that very clearly indeed.

We went on to adopt and have a 9 and 6 year old. I'm now pushing 40 and I think the impact on them if I were to get pregnant and miscarry would be significant.

I am sure your DH is hurting too but it is your body and your feelings of 'I can't do this' are utterly, completely reasonable. I wonder if some joint counselling might be the way forward?