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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

What did it take to make your DH see the light?

26 replies

MsRabble · 10/03/2015 04:03

Ok, I'm getting desperate here. H refuses to talk about things, is in total denial he's done anything wrong or that there is anything to talk about, even if I am telling him I want to talk. Slight history of EA and controlling behaviour (have started other threads on this...).

He's trying to bully me into staying with him, at the expense of the happiness of both of us, so I can't see the point. Everyone around him I'm sure can see the damage he's doing, and what he will potentially lose if he carries on (us, and the DC as a family). Even the odd person who is very gently nudging him to say you need to sort this out, say he is in total denial and not budging a single inch. Nothing at the moment can make him see the light. He's too proud to take anyone's advice.

So please please can you tell me, if you managed to work things out with a very stubborn partner, how did you do it? Did you have to leave to get them to listen? Counselling? Get his or mutual friends on side to talk to him? I don't want to leave and it will be extremely costly to me if I do and really is the last resort (I'm not in a position where I can just ask him to move out for a while since we are abroad, or I would do just that), so clutching at straws and desperate for ideas. Although leaving is becoming a closer reality

OP posts:

Original poster

MsRabble · 10/03/2015 04:05

I messed up the title, obviously, what did it take to MAKE your DH see the light.

OP posts:

Isetan · 10/03/2015 05:24

He'll see the light only if he wants to, there's no magic formulae to get someone to do something they dont want to do.

Your responsibility or focus isn't about getting him to see the light, limiting you and your childrens exposure to whatever behaviour he exhibits, that threatens your emotional and physical well-being, is.

Don't waste your time on 'If he could only see' handwringing.

SensationalGirl · 10/03/2015 05:36

If he has a personality disorder such as narcissism or similar he will NEVER see the light.

But if you're lucky and he's just an asshole, maybe a couple of years on his own until he wakes up to himself.

If he sees the light tomorrow it will still take years of hard work on his part to change. Personality changes take a really long time if they are to be lasting. Sorry.

Original poster

MsRabble · 10/03/2015 06:48

Not what I wanted to hear

Is leaving my only option...really? It's taking me a long time to understand that's what it's looking like I have to do more and more. I don't want it to be true, this is so hard.

Does anyone have any happy endings? Not that mine will be. I guess those with happy relationships don't surf this topic because they don't need to

OP posts:

AttilaTheMeerkat · 10/03/2015 06:58

Those in more emotionally healthy relationships are not with people who are abusive on any level.

The only level of abuse acceptable within a relationship is NONE.

Someone with a "slight" (was wondering what you meant by that) history of EA and controlling behaviour (controlling behaviour is in itself abusive) is NEVER going to see the light. He feels that he has done nothing wrong and feels entitled also.

Joint counselling in particular is never recommended where there is abuse within the relationship; it is used by the abuser as yet another weapon in their armoury to bash their victim with.

Trying to get someone else to acknowledge their behaviour is wrong is an exercise in futility; you can only ultimately help your own self.

Original poster

MsRabble · 10/03/2015 07:18

Attila, I suppose I meant mild, rather than slight. I wouldn't describe it as severe. Over the years there has been the odd incident that we - or I, I should say, have got over and moved on from, but for the last couple of months especially it has gone to a new level that's making me very uncomfortable and unhappy.

I know he has to realise it by himself. But he needs it to be pointed out though, doesn't he, if he's blind to the fact it is not acceptable? I can't do it, as he won't listen but I hope someone else can.

OP posts:

GoatsDoRoam · 10/03/2015 07:31

Neither you nor anyone else can make your DH see the light.

He is the only person who can do that. There is no magical phrase to use or magical person who can intervene. I know you don't want this to be true, and it's ok, we've all been there. This is hard to accept.

The person who needs to see the light is you: you have the facts (he won't change, the only person whose behaviour you can change is your own), so now you need to them and let go.

GoatsDoRoam · 10/03/2015 07:32

...you need to accept them...

missing word in previous post

Original poster

MsRabble · 10/03/2015 08:17

Goat, I know you are right, deep down. I am experiencing my own sort of denial. I could just see it dawning on him what he's done once we've all moved out and moved on and begging for us to come back and I wanted to avoid that trauma. I want him to realise before it's too late.

OP posts:

Anniegetyourgun · 10/03/2015 08:20

I'm sorry but IMO and IME leaving really is the key. At the very least you have to be fully prepared and able to leave and he has to know it - without the prospect of loss he will never see, because as with all abuse it's basically all about him. Whether he really does "see the light" at the last minute under that kind of pressure and starts to work on himself remains to be seen. If he does you may not have to go through with the leaving thing. I have to say, though, the more likely scenario is that he appears to have seen the light, behaves better for a while, but then either slips back into the old ways or finds new ways to be a pain in the backside. At least in that case you will have bought more time, so that when/if leaving is the only way you will be better prepared.

Meerka · 10/03/2015 08:27

Im (more or less) a happy ending.

Similar to you I moved overseas to be with him. Unfortunately (well, actually very fortunately, but it didnt feel like that 6 months in) contraception failed in a ridiculously short time.

DP became very obstructive. Stonewalling. Arguing everything - he'd argue the sun was purple if I said it was yellow. It was awful and it came within a whisker of killing all love for him. Any attempts to talk about it just ... failed. Nothign worked. Could not get through. I ended up shouting a lot and acting sarcastic and passive aggressive which is a path I really really really didn't want to stay on.

He realised that I didn't care any more about him and wasn't speaking to him. Not Not Speaking ... just did not wish to talk to him or communicate at all. It was a lot better when he wasn't in the room than when he was.

In the end, he realised that he'd killed the love. I didn't want to be with him, I didn't respect him any more and the love was nearly dead. I really wanted to leave though the practicalities were very difficult. It woke him up. He started to try to change. I didn't help becuase I'd tried to help before and well, he'd just ignored everything and carried on his own stubborn way. So I didnt care any more, I had nothing left to give.

He chose to keep persevering and mildly reluctantly I stayed open to the possibility of changing. Slowly it improved until now we hve a good relationship and we both have to work at it, he has to guard those tendancies and nor am I perfect.

Our wonderful in laws have just arrived so I gotta go but yes, occasionally couples pull through. He had a LOT of growing up to do. But HE had to do it. And he did. (massive credit to him) and now it's going far far better.

in haste, good luck.

Sortmylifeout · 10/03/2015 08:29

In my ex's case he saw the light a year after leaving and then suggested counselling even though I had been asking for years. He couldn't believe it when I didn't want him back. It was too late for me sadly.

Fairylea · 10/03/2015 08:38

I think living with a selfish emotionally abusive partner is like living with an alcoholic (and I've done both with separate people). Both only change if they want to but quite often by the time they do (if they ever do) it's too late and you feel so angry with them you can't forgive them anyway. I think there comes a point where you just completely fall out of love with them and think why am I wasting my time with someone like this? It's a horrible way to live.

Original poster

MsRabble · 10/03/2015 09:28

Meerka, did you actually tell him you wanted to leave? You said you stopped speaking but what do you think woke him up exactly? I feel the same right now about the not speaking thing. It's not silent treatment, just I have reached the point whatever I say will end up a disaster - sarcasm, hurtful comments or arguing, so better not to say anything at all apart from the bare minimum.

My H knows it would be very difficult for me to leave so is using that as another way to manipulate me.

I'm pleased though you were able to work through it and reach the point you are now.

Sortmylifeout, I'm afraid my H will be the same. But then by that time you don't care anymore, so good for you!

Fairy, I definitely don't feel any love at all right now. Even if we stop arguing and start talking, I don't know if it can ever come back again. He'd have to make some monster gestures to recover that.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/03/2015 09:34

Nobody 'sees the light' when they don't accept they are doing anything wrong. The mistake a lot of people make in your situation is believing that the problem is down to understanding. Truth is that the person behaving badly understands very well indeed that what they are doing is causing unhappiness and upset. They've seen the effect they have on others. They've been told. The real problem is that they don't care. As long as they get what they want, everyone else is irrelevant.... including you.

Bullies are not 'stubborn' or 'proud'... they're just bullies.

Quitelikely · 10/03/2015 09:40

OP what is he actually doing? Can you give us an example of the type of behaviour he is refusing to acknowledge?

queenoftheknight · 10/03/2015 10:05

Ending the relationship and going no contact. Child contact supervised and arranged through court.

And then the penny dropped.

Whether it will stay dropped? Who knows.

TopOfTheCliff · 10/03/2015 10:06

Oh dear OP it is hard to give you hope at this point. I woke up to an EA marriage with a PA sulker who portrayed me as the angry difficult one. I tried and tried to sort it out. I had hurt him and made him angry with my behaviour so he punished me with sulks and torment. Unfortunately he killed off any love I had left and I became very resentful and bitter.
At that point I was asking for space and a pause in the recriminations and arguments but he still wanted late night discussions depriving me of sleep and tearful pleading and begging over sex.

I do rack my brains to see whether we could have saved our marriage. Maybe if he had given me the space and been kind instead of hurtful I might have recovered. But he drove me away and 5 years on I am happy with a man who suits me so much better, and I think he has found someone more like he wanted me to be, so perhaps it was worth all the pain and expense of divorce.

SensationalGirl · 10/03/2015 10:32

On the plus side sulking can be fixed so it is bearable. You can teach people to "use their words" by not rewarding bad behaviour and forcing them to communicate with you other ways. A sulker who sulks because they can't tell you in other ways they are angry/hurt can improve a lot by learning to talk instead of sulk. It won't go away completely but it'll be a lot less.

If he uses it to EA you however he may very well do that in a different way causing new hurt. For example they could start to really use their words and become VA. Do you have a gut feeling if it could work?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/03/2015 10:34

Barring very small children, it's not the OP's responsibility to teach anyone to talk.

SensationalGirl · 10/03/2015 10:35

Oh I'm so sorry, in a moment of madness I thought Top was the Op and said her DH was a sulker. My advice is useless for a bully. I'm very sorry.

Joysmum · 10/03/2015 10:53

Nobody 'sees the light' when they don't accept they are doing anything wrong...Bullies are not 'stubborn' or 'proud'... they're just bullies

Perfect response from Cog.

Lweji · 10/03/2015 11:05

No happy ending.

Unless he is willing to compromise, there is nothing you can do, except be happy in yourself and either put up with how he has always been, or move on with your life.

My ex is still kept at arms length. He has stopped the abuse for the most part, but I can never be certain that he stopped being abusive if I trust him at any time. There are still signs that he hasn't. And I don't think people can change what they fundamentally are. Never expect them to.

BertieBotts · 10/03/2015 11:17

You have to come to terms with the fact that you don't live in a movie and he is not going to have some magical conversation with somebody and suddenly have a realisation which is going to prompt him to change his entire personality.

Sorry. Real life people don't work that way. There is something fundamentally in him which makes him feel that the things he has done are acceptable or justifiable.

You can have a happy ending - it just won't involve him.

rb32 · 10/03/2015 11:47

Well, I was like your husband. It took four months of seperation and then when talking about getting back together and she was telling how I was before we split THEN I 'saw the light'. I've changed alot since that moment and put in alot of effort. I've had councelling. I needed the space away from it to get some perspective, but nobody else could've help me see my behaviour for what it was IYSWIM?

It worked out for us because when we were seperated we split the childcare very evenly, we didn't talk apart from talking about the children, she had a place to stay locally. Neither of us wound each other up and we co-parented very well. Bisically, we respected each other enough so that when we got back together there was no extra nastyness to get over. We are now happier than ever and have even got married. So things can work out.

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