Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Flip

Original poster

How do I keep this child safe?

21 replies

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 11:17

My brother died just before his first child was born. She is now a delightful two year old, and I have a good relationship with both her and SIL.

Just after DB died she told me that she was abused by her father when she was a teen and this is why DB went NC with her family and she had minimal contact, but assured me that she had dealt with it and didn't need counselling or even to talk about it. I think she felt very close to me at the time because of what we were going through and just wanted to explain.

Now after the last few meet ups with her I gathered that her relationship with her parents is back to being full on. With lots of gushing Grandparent references and babysitting. Her latest revelation is that they are all going on holiday together in the summer.

I asked about allowing her F to be around her DD and if he is ever alone with her, her answer was that she understood why he did what he did to her and has no issue with allowing her DD to be around him. She will deny the conversation if I went to SS, and she would stop contact with me. She says that no one else knows of the abuse. I need to be in the little girls life if only to watch for any signs but I just feel that be doing nothing I am letting her down.

I'm just at a loss what to do for the best.

OP posts:

Original poster

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 12:08

Bump. Anyone?

OP posts:

KoalaKoo · 05/03/2015 12:11

Is it possible that the abuse was when she was a teen and therefore she is seeing the risk to a small child as non-existent?

BeeRayKay · 05/03/2015 12:11

Oh what a horrible situation. I have no advice, because I'd be just as stumped as you. I hope someone will be along shortly to offer advice.

flora717 · 05/03/2015 12:17

Oh god, that's a very challenging situation. I can't imagine why she'd be so threatening, rather than explaining her rationale (as you know and are supportive).
Have you told her you'd like to understand her decision (entirely hers) better?

Original poster

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 12:19

Yes KoalaKoo I do think that is how she sees it, I don't know any of the details of the abuse only that happened in her teen years.
Thanks BeeRayKay I'm really at a loss.

OP posts:

Missqwerty · 05/03/2015 12:20

Firstly. U don't say if it was physical or sexual abuse? If it was sexual I would visit the father myself and make it known I was keeping a very close eye on him and I would stay close to my niece. I would also plead with her mother to not leave the child alone with him ever.

Physical abuse, not at all acceptable but if it's the case he could have had reasons like illness etc. I would still be wary, but I can see why people can move on from that.

If she was sexual abused then I think she is being really stupid and careless, not protecting her child.

People often physically abuse out of stress etc, not at all acceptable but where as sexual abuse their must be some sort of attraction and I would never leave my child with anybody capable of that

Original poster

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 12:22

Flora I know she is still struggling badly with the loss of DB, and her attachment back to her parents is probably something to do with this. I can only think she is scared of losing them. I really want her to try some kind of counselling even if it's initially for the bereavement, but again she has point blank refused.

OP posts:

Original poster

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 12:26

Missqwerty It was sexual. That is what is horrifying me. I don't know about approaching her F. What if this blows up in my face and they close ranks. Her M is worse that useless from what I gather. She threw SIL out rather that the F. It's just so messed up.
I feel I'm letting my DB down so badly.

OP posts:

GoatsDoRoam · 05/03/2015 12:29

You are right to be concerned, and you are right to think that you need to do something.

Your SIL was groomed by her father to accept his abuse, she has not dealt with the issues this has left her with, and he is back in her life. She still does not have the tools to protect herself, or her DD, from him. So your DN is at very real risk.

I think you do need to go to SS.

She'll cut you off, of course, so then you'll need to be persistent in order keep an eye out for DN's wellbeing, and make sure that SS are taking this seriously and following up.

Horrible situation to be in. But doing nothing is hardly an option: if your SIL remains in denial, other adults have to act in the interests of the child.

Original poster

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 12:34

I think your right Goat I had hoped to never be here, my DM adores DN and I worry about the consequences on her if SIL cuts me off, will she walk away from DM too.

OP posts:

Original poster

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 12:37

If SIL denies all, how serious will SS take the complaint though? I have heard horror stories, even here on MN, of SS having their hands tied without any kind of evidence, which there isn't and if SIL won't admit to anything. Will then Social Services walk away and I'm not allowed in DN life and leaving her wide open to this vile man?

OP posts:

shovetheholly · 05/03/2015 12:39

Oh God, what a difficult situation.

I think I would really try hard to speak to your SIL before you go to SS, because I can't see how it will protect the child if the entire family denies that any abuse happens, and then you are cut off. That seems like a worse situation than your current one, as you will have no way of knowing what is happening. You will have done the 'right thing' by the child on paper, but realistically, it sounds like it would just make the situation worse.

This might be a matter of building up a lot of trust with your SIL. I would be tempted to try the emotional route - maybe buy her a book to help survivors of abuse, and suggest therapy (maybe you can help her with the cost?), and be there for her 100% of the time, in a caring and non-judgmental way. Perhaps once she's in a place where she's able to confront what happened to her, the reality of the situation with her DD will become more 'real'. It sounds like she's in wholesale denial at the moment, and having just lost a DP, it's easy to see why she might worry about problematising her relationship with her parents too.

Original poster

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 12:43

Shove cross posts.

OP posts:

thanksamillion · 05/03/2015 12:47

Before you go to SS call the NSPCC. They probably have experience of similar situations and will be able to support you through the decision making that you need to do.

Original poster

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 12:51

Thanks Thanks

OP posts:

pocketsaviour · 05/03/2015 12:54

Speak to SIL and record the conversation on your mobile. I know that seems underhand and a betrayal, but your SIL is still deep in denial, as goats said above. Then go to SS. I know that sounds horrible, but the primary concern has to be the safety of the child.

My dad molested me between the ages of 11 and 13. He then started grooming my younger sister when I was 15. I saw the signs, told my mum, she refused to believe he would do it (although he had confessed doing it to me.) I ended up telling a teacher to have him removed from the home, via social services.

Original poster

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 12:56

I have just had a look at NSPCC helpline, it looks like a good place to start. I hadn't even thought of that. Hopefully I can do something at least.

OP posts:

Original poster

helpmehelpyou · 05/03/2015 13:04

I suppose I just can't get my head around it all.

OP posts:

TeenAndTween · 05/03/2015 13:17

I have no experience in any of this, but have a couple of thoughts.

One may hope that someone who abuses teen girls wouldn't be interested in a pre-pubescent one.

If you can stay close to your niece, then as soon as she is old enough to understand (age 3 or 4) you can start giving her 'stay safe' messages regarding being touched etc. Stressing that sometimes even people they know well aren't allowed to touch her down there etc. And you can keep on with these messages as she grows.

Chillyegg · 05/03/2015 13:19

Personally I'd keep a relationship with your niece and sil. And make sure I was in a position of trust for my niece to come and speak to me.
I would not comment on anything that your sil mentions about her family, I would however keep a diary of any safeguarding issues you feel would be appropriate. And then at anytime when you felt you needed to report you would have evidence. Then anonymously as possible submit that evidence.

Chillyegg · 05/03/2015 13:28

I know what I said is under hand but I'd rather be In an informed position where I can do something. Rather than completely excluded and then whatever ever could happen.
Also call the nspcc

Flip