Unconditional Love and Emotional Abuse

[ChopUpYourHeart]

Why do people make love so conditional on reciprocation?

If a woman is in a relationship with a man who doesn't love her or is emotionally abusive to her, it seems that the normal reaction is to assume she is a doormat with no self-respect.

People are complicated and few people are all bad. Isn't it actually possible to genuinely love someone who treats you badly and for it to be a very pure form of unconditional love? The love that asks no questions and asks for nothing in return?

I was in an emotionally abusive relationship that has been over for a long time. But I genuinely loved him - although he could be cruel to me, he had some fantastic other qualities and he was a man unlike anyone I had met before. I've never really had a relationship like it before or since. I was much more demanding in other relationships and more selfish about my love (in terms of reciprocation).

Although it is long since over, I still love him and feel as if it was, for me, the kind of purest form of love because I actually wasn't really asking anything from him at all.

I was thinking about all of this and realised that if I said this publicly I would get totally slammed for being a doormat and having no self respect. To say you loved someone who treated you badly. It was me that left him because I had had enough of certain aspects of his behaviour that I couldn't cope with. My love was unconditional but a certain sort of disrespectful behaviour I couldn't tolerate. But I do still love him.

And was thinking - actually isn't real love unconditional. And why should someone's feelings be dismissed as "not real" or "infatuation" or "deluded" simply because they aren't reciprocated? It makes no sense.

Not sure why I'm posting. Just to discuss it really. I guess I was watching a romantic film and thinking about my ex and the whole love thing and how the idea of unconditionally loving someone who is abusive to you isn't accepted concept.

I wouldn't say my love for dh is unconditional. I love him now, I probably will for the rest of my life because I can't imagine that he'd ever hurt me. But while I would work through a lot, it definitely isn't unconditional. Only my love for my children is unconditional.

I think it is a very unbalanced relationship and the person on the receiving end of the abusive behaviour is seen as vulnerable.

I don't think loving someone who is emotionally abusive is a more pure version or more unconditional than the love anyone feels for their partner.

I agree; there is nothing my DCs could do that could make me stop loving them. But relationships end all the time. Yours did OP - although you describe it as unconditional, you (rightly) had your boundaries.

All I know is that my dm always told us that you only have unconditional love for your children.

It seems to me that romantic relationships always come with conditions. Sometimes we give the other person the benefit of the doubt for bad decisions etc, but surely a romantic love is conditional on reciprocation?

Unconditionally loving someone who is abusive in return isn't pure or noble, it's foolhardy and tragic. The feelings may be real enough but they are damaging the individual by blocking their self-preservation instinct and fogging judgement.

If what you had - in its entirety, abuse and all - was the only 'real' form of love would you recommend it to your children? Doubt it.

I'm not sure. My ex was and still is Ea. It isn't that I stopped loving him but question who the him was that I loved and if he really existed.

I've had to accept he didn't love me when at the time I thought h e did. So much manipulation and cruel and confusing behaviours, it will take me a long time to process if I ever do.

I forgave a lot whilst I was in the relationship cos he was like a messed up child in many respects and I loved him despite it all but that's partly what kept me there when I should've left.

My abusive ex-h complained that I didn't love him "unconditionally" when I said I was leaving him on the grounds of his abuse. Damn straight there were conditions to my love: respect and consideration.

Children and domestic animals get unconditional love when they are dependent on us. Grown-ass adults earn it through a show of mutual respect and consideration.

A couple of things jumped out at me from your OP.

The first is that the "normal" reaction to someone who is in love with an abuser is a doormat with no self respect. I really don't believe that is true and I question why you believe it to be so? I have friends in abusive relationships, I have NEVER blamed them in that way and I come from a background of abusive relationships myself and I never see myself that way either!

Love is not meant to be unconditional - I don't think that even extends to parental love TBH. Don't get me wrong, I love my children, of course, but should they turn out to be rapists, cold blooded murderers, paedophiles? Hmm. I think I would find it hard to continue to love them. Is that a shocking thing to say or think? I'm not sure.

I "loved" my XH with a fiery passion for more than half of my life. He was abusive when we were married and I pined - literally pined - for him for a decade after we split. Is this love then? I am pretty sure I will never feel that way about anyone ever again so does that mean it was the purest love, that he is the love of my life? I certainly hope not as it certainly didn't feel good really and it definitely wasn't "healthy"

Random stream of consciousness here - isn't that important too? That love should be healthy for all parties? Isn't that true "unconditional" love? A love that is shared and that means that everyone involved wants, desires and works towards both parties being as healthy and happy as possible?

One of the endearing traits of human beings is that we can love all kinds of things and in all kinds of different ways. People form emotional attachments not just to family, friends, etc but to movie stars, death row inmates, mangy cats, knackered donkeys .... dead princesses they never met Not exactly rational. Even if it's difficult, important to exercise some judgement.

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/trauma_bonding.html

I think a lot of people are deluded about what love really is, seeing it as this all consuming passion, egged on by films and books with broody heroes and "the one" and all that nonsense. If there really only was one true love for you, the logistical chances of meeting them are pretty slim. You fall in love with someone who you like and are sexually attracted to and you meet at a time when you are receptive. So no, I don't think romantic love should be unconditional and yes, I do think that if you think you are in love with someone who abuses you, you are fooling yourself.

I don't know if people love or just think they love their abusers. Maybe they do, probably they do. I do think that is not the action of a fully functioning self esteem.

I also think that your abuser showed you his "fantastic" other qualities at well timed intervals. They're very good at that.

It's kind of like saying "oh, he loved me too, in his own way". I think people desperately want that to be true. Abusers need their victims. They don't love them.

I'm glad you're free of him and I hope you are happy.

Take care.

I think a lot of women in EA relationships think their partners do love them. Indeed, the cycle of EA relationships usually includes sunny,honeymoon periods where the abuser lures them back in.

So, I'm struggling with your definition of an abusive relationship, and with your definition of an unconditional love that you can walk away from, and tbh I don't entirely believe that you can love someone who treats you badly. It may be infatuation or co-dependency but I don't think it's love.

Well....I think unconditional love can lead you into a mug's game.

Many of us have tried it. It's hard to think that you may not be transcending anything, or offering a purer form of love, or anything else that you may have mentally taken on board, in order to rationalise your love of a selfish person. All that's happened is that you love someone who doesn't care about you.

It's sad, mundane, and heartbreaking to face this.

(Note : you didn't love your ex and get nothing back. You did get something back. Abuse. Not the same as nothing, and a very poor exchange for your love.)

OP, your love for your Ex wasn't unconditional. You left him because of his disrespectful behaviour. And rightly so.

Real love (for any adult) is not unconditional and cannot exist. It is not good for the person being loved to behave as cruelly as they want to someone. It's not good to let toddlers do what they want all the time, likewise romantic partners.

You seem to have a romanticized, unrealistic and confused view of unconditional love.

Unconditional love is an ancient and worn out fantasy. It belongs in romantic novels of yesteryear. I have unconditional love for my CHILDREN. That's all. If my partner treated me like shit with any regularity then deals off.

Sure love can be unconditional. However choosing to remain in a relationship can and should be conditional.

You said yourself that you left him because of aspects of behaviour you could no longer cope with.

So I don't see a problem with saying you love someone and care and so on, whilst knowing it would be dangerous to be in a relationship with them.

The problem with the idea of 'unconditional' love is that it gets many people thinking that if they feel love for someone they have to be with them, no matter how they are being treated. 'But I love X' is a common thing to say when wrestling with the choice to leave a toxic partner.

Unconditional love as an ideal is a con job. It's peddled by the powerful to keep those they exploit in a state of submssion and obedience. Ever noticed that it's women who are praised for loving 'unconditionally' and reprimanded for rejecting people who mistreat them?
OK we generally love our children no matter what - but sometimes we have to cut or reduce contact with them if their behaviour is unacceptable. If you have several children and one is troubled enough to be violent to the others, you can still love that child while evicting the child from the family home for the sake of the other children.
'Unconditionally' loving a romantic partner who mistreats you makes you either a mug or a martyr, neither of which are healthy.

I love DH unconditionally.
I live with him and am married to him conditionally.

You are talking bollocks. Sorry. Google 'earned secure attachment'.

You have to make a distinction between love and what you do about that love. I think it's quite possible to love someone who is abusive to you but I don't think that that means you have to stay in a relationship with them. And I agree that unconditional love, as an ideal, is crap.

Thanks for all your answers and thoughts. It's very interesting to see so many different perspectives.

I forgave a lot whilst I was in the relationship cos he was like a messed up child in many respects

I very much identified with this. I think I was like that - I saw his treatment of me as part of his own damage. He seemed to me like a lost boy a lot of the time. Which I supposed had psychological echos of unconditional love for a child.

My abusive ex-h complained that I didn't love him "unconditionally" when I said I was leaving him on the grounds of his abuse. Damn straight there were conditions to my love: respect and consideration.

Goatsdoroam I really liked this post. I thought it was well expressed and something I must try to store mentally.

The trauma bonding link was interesting but I don't think this was trauma bonding. My feelings towards him pre-dated the abuse and were more to do with him as a person and his good qualities.

I'm not sure how unconditional love for a child is anyway. It's all very abstract because until that unconditional-ness is tested (which it may never properly be) you just don't know. I saw a programme about psychopaths that featured a mother in southern USA whose son was in prison for various murders. He was a psychopath. She lived with a gun under her bed because she thought if he got out or escaped he would hunt her down and kill her. She was very clear that she would have no compunction about killing him if he tried to kill her.

As I said, I don't really know why I was posting. I think I wanted to get this off my chest and maybe there is a mental coping mechanism of trying cope with the fact that I (who I see as strong and competent) was in this fucked up set up for so long. Maybe part of that is trying to kid myself that in some way it was a noble and pure feeling I had towards him. And some how that makes me better than him. Or makes me feel better about it.

I don't know. Ramble ramble ramble. Sorry.

You are better than him because you weren't abusive. You're also better than him because you were strong enough to walk away and have conditions on your relationship. All of which points to you having better boundaries and a better understanding of relationships than him.

Seeing his treatment of you as part of his own damage can be seductive and although there is an element of truth in it, it also downplays his conscious choice to be defined by those earlier experiences and to treat you badly. I think sometimes pity and love can be mistaken, and often in EA relationships they can be closely intertwined.

I'm a bit concerned that by tying up your reasons for staying with a definition of unconditional love, you might leave yourself open to repeating that relationship pattern. Have you had counselling to come to terms with the relationship? Trying to understand why you entered and stayed in the relationship is very worthwhile and I'm not sure that exploration would throw up anything about unconditional love unless your childhood experiences defined unconditional love as having poor boundaries (which I know was part of my problem!).

The idea that you are a strong woman, in love with a deeply troubled or damaged man, can keep you trapped in abuse longer than you otherwise might be.

This lady has been through that (TED talk)
m.youtube.com/watch?v=V1yW5IsnSjo

I'm not convinced that what you describe is unconditional love, it sounds more like a kind of emotional slavery. I wonder if you romanticise and magnify the feelings you had for him because it's easier than thinking that you fell for an arse and wasted your time.

The success of 50 Shades of Meh shows how popular among women the conception of love as submission is. And billionaires too obviously...