Ending things, bit scared, need handholding

[beginningofnewbeginning]

I have been married for a bit less than 4 years, have a 3 and 1 year old and live abroad. I have been unhappy with h for quite a long time of this. I discovered mumsnet a couple of years ago and started identifying parts of his behaviour as emotional abuse. He has a horrible temper and constantly flashes over minor things, shouting and sometimes looking like a cartoon character angry man. I couldn't stand living in the atmosphere but felt quite trapped and of course there were good bits too.

However, it got to the point that every day there would be outbursts and I was constantly aware of things that would trigger it, like walking on eggshells. I always stood up to him and I don't wish to be bullied but I couldn't win as if I shouted back it's just horrendous for the dcs but if I calmly tell him to stop behaving like that it doesn't really work and I end up feeling so stressed.

Anyway I repeatedly told him I can't tolerate this and sometimes he would apologise but usually he would twist the blame on to me causing him to be like that. Financially I earn significantly more than him and also paid for our house (which we own), cars etc. A lot of it comes from his inadequacy but that is not my problem.

I reached the end of the road a few weeks ago and told him I am not willing to live like this and am going to leave. He had a big realisation and admitted that he has been abusing me, trying to chip away at me etc. He arranged to see a therapist and suddenly stopped losing his temper. I told him that it's too late for me and I cannot forgive him for the past or trust him again and I do not love him any more.

Now I am going to move out with the children. I still have the legal claim on the house but to make it smooth as possible for the children I am going to go as the house is not practical or convenient for me and is too isolated.

The plan is that the children spend 3 nights with him and 4 with me, but I will probably be able to see them every day regardless as will do pick ups from nursery etc. This will be for the next year or 2 then I will decide what to do next.

He is going to continue to see his therapist as he has a lot of issues to work through and wants to sort himself out. I am glad he is doing this for the dcs sake. He is a devoted and loving father and he is keeping his temper under control so I know he can.

Now I am just a bit scared as I do not really have any support here, some friends and colleagues but it's limited whereas he has his family and this is his country. He is being fairly reasonable but I just have this panicky feeling about it all which I keep trying to suppress and to be strong. I know I can't be with him in the long run and I think I can probably have a better life without him whether I'm here or abroad but I just could do with some kind of support and advice on how to make this best for the children. I have done the freedom programme online but I am also worried about my own bad habits with relationships and repeating them in the future.

Hi, just wanted to say (although I do not know what you are going through0 stay strong and good luck.

whattheholyfeck I found some quotes from Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft. Very interesting.

exerts from Why Does He Do That? By Lundy Bancroft.

beginningofnewbeginning it sounds like you have lots of reasons to be angry!

This therapist sounds like she does not understand your situation.

If your marriage is over it sounds like you can divert some of your attention onto making things work well for your kids. You said Now I am worried about how he may try and manipulate the children and am anxious to make sure that my relationship with them is good as I will be the one taking them away from their home and to a new place. He is very hands on with them and they often turn to him first for things as he is quite dominating.

It must be very hard to parent around a person who is dominating. I hope you will be able to build up a brilliant relationship with your kids and get things on a good footing.

Just as a point of interest we adopted a little boy last year. We were advised to take his bedding, (unwashed) and toys and clothes etc and to set up his new room with some of his old things so when he moved it was not too much of a change for him.

It may or may not be possible to take things, all things, from their rooms or to do stuff like that, and you may want lots of new stuff in your home. But if you can try and take some stuff that looks and smells like home, special bedding, toys, plates etc. Whatever is important.

We started off with the same routine etc when ds came to us at first. The same bedtime routine, tv programmes, books etc etc. It is almost a year now an he has developed and things have changed. We have kept photos of foster family and rather than putting them up on walls we have them in a memory box and on the side in his rooms so lots of things from his foster family and from birth family. We have kept all these things 'on the side' not on the walls so he can choose to put them out and look at them or not.

Of course it is different for you, you are their mum, but if you are starting a new home without their dad you may find a way to work through the changes by making some good things like their old home.

My friend who recently divorced let the children put photos of their dad in their rooms but not in the living room. Her kids are a lot older than yours and so for your little ones things may be different.

It is all quite complex so please ignore anything I say that is not helpful.

Italiangreyhound that's really useful advice thank you, I will definitely need to take some furniture from the house and some toys, books etc while not wanting to leave it totally empty of course.

Sleep has been terrible for a while now as baby has been mostly co sleeping and bf through the night and I haven't had the energy to do anything about it even though she's 16 months now. Recently 3 yo sleeps with h as she has become unsettled and started wetting the bed since things have changed between us.

I was thinking at first we may well just all sleep together but I will involve 3yo in making her room nice and so on and try to establish new routines.

Last night they both slept at my in laws with h and baby went all night and morning without feeding and only woke twice so I should probably stop anyway. Tonight for the first time in ages I settled my 3yo and she was very upset at first and really in a state but I just talked to her about when she was a baby and the things we used to do and she calmed down and chatted and fell asleep. I feel like I have been cut off from her at times and I hope now I can properly re-establish a good relationship with her.

Just wanted to say you sound like you're a strong Mum, hope things go ok for you. I was on the relationships board cos I need to post something to garner advice, and my situation sounds similar to yours (his random intense blowups over strange things, me walking on eggshells, slightly panicking when I hear his car on the drive etc). When I described my situation on another thread, someone suggested it was gaslighting - I hadn't heard the term before but when I read about it it all seemed horribly familiar. Anyway, i'm still with DH, mainly cos we have good times as well as the bad and he has a good relationship with DS (and I'm 5 months pregnant)... I'm just not sure how I feel about DH (it's hard to love someone and be affectionate with someone who can turn on you for next to no reason, and call you all the names under the sun) and I guess my moving out just seems plain scary atm. It takes a lot of courage to do what you've done. I'll watch this thread and hope things work out for you. Sorry got no constructive advice, just wanted to send you a virtual hand to hold! ????

beginningofnewbeginning good luck with sleep routines. My 10 year old (birth) dd came into our bed until age 8. I would not recommend it but we simply could not stop it! Finally, amazingly she stopped before ds arrived when dd was 9! No idea why now.

One idea is to go and you sleep in their bed until they fall asleep. But you do tell them, I will not stay all night, just until you sleep.

This book may help (never helped me but may help others)...

The no cry sleep solution

Also, IMVHO if your dh is co sleeping with the children then you have to also do it because co sleeping creates a bond (IMHO) and if he is doing it and you are no, then you may come off worse in terms of connecting further with the kids. But as they get older you can explore these sleep 'issues' with them and get advice. IMVHO initially you just want to make the move from your current joint home to your new home as smooth as you can.

Good luck, you are brave and also wise, if you know your marriage is over you are doing what is best all round. My friend stayed married to her alcoholic husband for years, another to her controlling husband for years, both did not leave until the children were all in school and much older. It was hard when they left but they both felt it was right and are now getting on much better.

There is a huge temptation to think a marriage can be fixed, but sometimes it cannot. If both parties are behaving relatively normally but have kind of 'fallen out of love with each other' maybe they can fall back in love. But if one is being abusive or aggressive and controlling then I am not sure where you can from there. Always keep in your mind what you know to be best for you and the children. Other people saying they can fix things is scary, they think they know your reality better than you who are living it!

(I mention my friends because this is the closest I have come to these experiences, I just want to be clear I have not been through it myself. But I have a lot of sympathy because I have seen close up how hard it is for people to live with controlling men or in unhappy marriages for years.)

Good luck.

Pip hope things work out for you.

Is this what happens with you gaslighting

Does that sound familiar beginningofnewbeginning.

I have heard about gaslighting before on here and I definitely think he does that. Today he is in a bad place, he is like a black cloud around the house. He's not taking care of himself, he smells, he says he doesn't care. I told him if he can't take care of himself how can I trust him to take care of the dcs but he just said he doesn't care what I say and that I don't even think about what the dcs are going to eat (rubbish).

He also said he doesn't want to be around me ever and just wants to get as far away as possible. He has been being ill all week, going to his mother's to sleep all day and just coming back for nights, not going to work. I wanted to talk to dd about what is happening together today but with him like this that will do more harm than good. I feel so dragged down by him. At least tomorrow though he is going for the week as I have my dm coming to visit and will be moving.

In addition to his abusive behaviour he has alcoholic tendencies and his father is a terrible alcoholic and abusive too, his mother is a doormat and has submitted her kids to a lifetime of shit with him because she didn't have the backbone to leave. He always said he was with me because he knew I was strong and wouldn't do the same, now of course he'll be kicking himself for that decision.

I have the no cry sleep solution as I was planning to tackle sleep months ago but never managed. I am hoping that once I am free from him I will have the energy to do more as lately I just go to bed with the baby at 8ish and sleep until morning.

Sorry dear OP it sounds very shitty at moment.

Regarding *He's not taking care of himself, he smells, he says he doesn't care. I told him if he can't take care of himself how can I trust him to take care of the dcs but he just said he doesn't care what I say and that I don't even think about what the dcs are going to eat (rubbish).

He also said he doesn't want to be around me ever and just wants to get as far away as possible.*

Please do keep a note of all he says. Not to trip him up but just so you remember what he said, when things move on you may want to discuss these things rationally with him. EG can he care for the children if he cannot care for himself. I really hope he will be able to. But if things go downhill I think it would help to have a record of it, otherwise a smart solicitor may say it is new situation but you can say well it has been going on since March etc. Not to trip him but to be honest about how things are and have been.

Again, no experience of all this, but if he really ends up not washing or eating properly and it does all go very much downhill you may not feel safe with him taking care of the dcs. I really hope this will not happen. It may be temporary and when he sees how you are coping without him he may step up.

He has just left to go to his parents for the week. He was unpleasant this morning then kind of OK this afternoon but with a tension around him. Now he has gone I feel a surprising sadness about it all that wasn't there before. I shed a few tears but I resisted saying anything to him as I didn't want him to think he had an inroad. I am sure this is the right thing, we just have been through a lot together and have a lot of memories, not all of them bad.

I am glad I have my mum coming tomorrow and I will be signing the lease on my new flat so it's all good.

Do remember the good things, he is your children's dad and of course they would have been some good stuff that drew you to him.

I really hope things will work out well.

one of the symptoms of a EA, is threatening suicide/becoming ill to make you worry about them & feel guilty.
Don't go there. he will be fine (don't tell me he is still a mummy's boy, is he my husband ?)

Yes he is very much a mummy's boy, though can be pretty nasty to her too at times but she just sort of shrugs it off with maybe an eye roll as if to say 'men eh, what can you do?' It's so bloody annoying.

That is often typically meridional maternal behavior.
It is part of the culture, & many of these men boys just never grow into fully responsible adults. they are brought up as kings & always get what they esteem to be their right. You are fighting an ingrown culture trait. It cannot & will never be resolved...

Who knew that the culture would be so different between 2 normally equivalent european nations?

Yes it certainly didn't seem to be this way in the beginning, he was so kind, helpful and thoughtful. I just feel now that there are so many differences and issues though that it is really not workable and I just can't compromise myself and my quality of life enough to make it possible for the marriage to continue.

Today after a lot of stresses and last minute problems (and both dcs being ill) I have got the keys to my new place and can start to organise myself which is quite exciting!

So what happens about the house, are the deeds in both names? or in your name? will you sell it eventually & split 50/50 ? what "regime" did you marry under?
you must ask the notaire. whether he is entitled to 1/4 share (if you have 2 children) or whether he is entitles to half or none.
Beware of weird laws by which you may end up forfeiting your ownership by him effectively gaining squatters rights by living in it & paying all the bills.

I know initially you want to go quietly with the minimum of hassle, & maybe this is the price of freedom, but in view of you having to presumably rent alternative accommodation, you should sell (your share) it so that he doesn't gain exclusive ownership. or at least get it down on some kind of rental agreement, while waiting for a divorce.

Sorry to talk finances, but he will probably get revenge in this way once he understands that you are serious. He will understand the laws of his country whereas you won't probably know all the fine twisted print.

Well according to the solicitor I spoke to as long as I can prove the money for the house came from my side I am entitled to everything and him living there now makes no difference. The worst case scenario because we're married is 50/50. I will let things be for now but when we divorce I'll sell it if I can. He did say he would try to get a mortgage and buy it from me as he wants it for the kids sake but I doubt he'll be able to.

Make him sign a contract of some sort.
You are having to pay for separate accommodation, see the notaire or your accountant... or google the situation in the country you are in.
or go onto www.angloinfo.com & ask if anyone knows the nitty gritty on the forum
I know that in the Europen country I live in there are several nasty surprises to be had.