Frank discussion with difficult elderly mother

[mermaid101]

My mum is nearly 70. She has always been quite difficult. She is controlling, a bit snobbish, prides herself on being "direct" and has, in my opinion, a very narrow view on life.

For a while, it has seemed as if her friends are distancing themselves from her. She has fallen out with most of her family.

Recently, she told my sister that yet another friend she had previously holidayed with, had declined to go away with her again. My mum was very upset and said she was tired of being "rejected" by everyone.

I feel we need to have a fairly frank conversation with her. I can clearly see why her friends are pulling away. I would like to point out that she really needs to think about her expectations of people and how she communicates with everyone. She also is prone to pulling faces, rolling her eyes and "huffing and puffing" if she disapproves of anything. She is also prone to excessive emotional outbursts when disappointed.

I feel if she doesn't make some changes, she is going to have a very lonely old age. A change in her behaviour would also make my life much easier.

She used to say to us that if she ever became cantankerous and difficult she really wanted us to tell her. I think now is the time.

Has anyone else ever had to do this with an elderly relative? How did you approach it and how did it go?

Why do you feel the need to do this at all?. You seem to be the only person who by listening to her at all is giving her an audience. Its hard being one of the few people, if not the only one, to actually bother with her but it is ok to walk away for your own self preservation here.

She will never ever give you the approval that you perhaps still even now seek or want from her.

If your mother is a narcissist in terms of personality then what you describe is par for the course for such people; they are never at fault and are always right in their mind. These people have never been emotionally healthy and never will be.

Having such a conversation will be a complete and utter waste of time and will not go well at all. She will likely be defensive, become outright hostile and go into denial. She has not listened to other people so she will not listen to you, her daughter, either. Your mother has always been "difficult" and has not changed at all. She has made a choice to act like this and the roots of all that were put in place long before you were even born. Her family of origin likely behaved in the self same ways as she has done.

....She used to say to us that if she ever became cantankerous and difficult she really wanted us to tell her...... (My emphasis.)

The thing is that people generally don't really want to be told. It's just one of those things that they say to make themselves feel better and Oh-So-Reasonable. Any conversation would likely go pretty badly and be combative - she'd be asking you to give examples of everything you alleged and then justifying each on a case by case basis. You'd end up achieving little or nothing apart from your own emotional exhaustion.

Can you engineer the conversation so she tells you about the friend refusing to go away with her and then ask her why she thinks that is? It's pretty much impossible to tell her outright that she's a controlling, bigoted old bag and nobody can stand it...

Could you suggest she joins a group holiday for single older people? She might find it easier than being with one person.

I do sympathise. My own mother can be nightmarishly rude and does all the eye rolling and making remarks and assumptions about people. It's very hard work. I do pull her up, though. I suppose if you are with her you could pull her up gently then say jokingly that she asked you to say if she became difficult...I can't imagine any huge changes,though. It's sad because my mum is very nice she just very good at hiding it sometimes.

Why not write her a letter instead? That way she won't be able to butt in and argue with you, and you'll have time to craft it so it says what you want and strikes the right tone.

If she has not realized that the problem is HER when so many people are distancing herself and falling out with her, nothing YOU say will make a difference.

distancing themselves that should say

Mermaid, I have, on occasion, reminded my parents and grandparents that it's nicer to behave kindly and to be polite, even if we are family.

With one parent this went very badly, though it made things no worse. The other parent was receptive and glad to have been tactfully told. The grandparent is a little prickly but does improve behaviour for a whole before forgetting again.

I think kindness is important. It's probably not their fault, and they have just slipped into poor habits of behaviour. If no one has the courage and tact to let them know, how will they be able to change?

OP - you said 'A change in her behaviour would also make my life much easier.' How much are you involved with her day to day and how much does her behaviour affect you yourself?

Engineer conversation so she tells you about the friend not wanting to go away with her. Ask her why she thinks it is. Then say 'remember how you said if you were cantakerous, you'd want to know?' - and see what she says.

If she doesn't get it, I'm afraid it's her problem.

I see her about once or twice a week. I'm on maternity leave with my second child just now. I had PND after he was born and, although she didn't know this, has been a good help. On a practical level.

She has no family really apart from me and my sibling (and our families). She fell out with all her siblings, her parents are dead and my dad is dead, but she was divorced from him anyway.

She seems to enjoy having friends and did have quite a wide circle. But this appears to be diminishing. I think she is genuinely unaware as to how her manner impacts on people.

I think having this conversation would help me on a few levels. I have had a troubled relationship with her. I am in the process of working on boundaries within my relationship her. It would be useful to have this issue out in the open. Also, she has started to suggest moving closer to me. If she continues as she is, I would not like to see her more. I find having her around stressful as she can be quite rude/unpleasant to my husband.

I was thinking, as other posters have suggested, sort of engineering the conversation to raise the issue and then going from there.

I often have to have quite difficult conversations at work, so I feel fairly sure I could do it reasonably tactfully.

Even if you have the conversation, she may not change her behaviour. You need to prepare yourself for that outcome. She might not agree with your opinion or get defensive when you speak to her. She may understand and agree with your points, but still not have it in her to change.

By all means, keep on working the boundaries in your relationship with her. That's an area you have the power to change.

Ah - for me, that puts a slightly different complexion on things.

So for you, any conversation would be less about changing her behaviour than about starting to manage boundary issues between you? If so, I think that that's do-able.

A bit of both cozie. I do think she needs to modify her behaviour if she wants to hang on to her friends.

However, it would also suit me if she changed her behaviour, even a little bit. She displays the difficult behaviours around us as well and I'm finding it increasingly hard to bear ( hence the boundary setting).

I suppose I'm being a bit opportunistic here. I think it would be in her interests, although I am aware how upsetting and hard something like this would be to hear. However, any change she may affect, would hopefully help our relationship too.

Oh yes, sorry. It would also be helpful with the boundary issue. Both any positive out come and also the process of having the conversation.

What do you think such a conversation would achieve realistically speaking?. Difficult conversations with people at work and such with your own mother are two very difficult animals. You will likely come off far worse from any encounter with your mother.

Such people like your mother really cannot do relationships at all. Its no surprise to me that she has fallen out with all and sundry because she regards other people as bit players in her own life where she is the centre of the universe.

You may well be able to reassess and reassert your own boundaries but she may well choose to reject these and ride roughshod over them. If she is narcissistic in nature she will not take any notice of boundaries you care to set anyway. She has not taken any regard as to other people's boundaries, she certainly won't take any notice of yours now.

You still seem very obligated with regards to your mother and want to try with her even now even though not surprisingly your own H cannot abide her.

I very much doubt whether she'll modify her behaviour - at least not consistently - but it sounds as if you're not going into this with undue expectations.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Sounds like a good idea. You seem to be quite clear-headed about it, in terms of what to say, how to say it, and what your expectations can be. You're trying to help her while at the same time establishing your own boundaries.

Hope it goes well.

Is there any chance she could be depressed? My grandmother became increasingly difficult as she got older, and while much of it was to do with her declining physical health she was also diagnosed with depression and prescribed medication for it, which helped a lot.

Katelyn, that's exactly how I view the situation, but couldn't manage to articulate! Thank you!

It really is mostly about setting out my stall. Ill need to see how the conversation goes, but it might be a good opportunity to bring up the manner in which she speaks to my husband.

I also do have concerns about my role in her future. Although the moving closer is just an idea at the moment, I could not have her around more if she continues her behaviour.

Also, I can see that her lack of friends would have an impact on get expectations of me.

I do, however, feel quite sorry for her. Apart from her and my sibling, I essentially have no family. I do have wonderful friends. My relationships and connections with them are hugely important to me and they bring me great joy. I would be deveststed if these relationships were jeopardised. It would be worse if I could have done something to prevent it.

Xiahozhu,

I have often thought this. For many years. She has had a lot of difficult life events to deal with: divorce from my dad, the death of both her parents, the death of one of her siblings and all her difficulties and falling out with people which have peppered all these times and whereas, in my opinion , most of them were her doinging, must have made these very sad and difficult circumstances much harder.

I have suggested approaching her GP about this. She is resolutely opposed to this. She feels that her life would be practically perfect if her family were more supportive of her!

I also think she has a tense relationship with her GP. She only sees one of them ( she doesn't like any of the others) and reading between the lines of what she has told me, he appears to find her tiresome. Not that I think for a second that would stop him treating her appropriately.

I did, at one time, suggest in the strongest terms that she seek counselling. During her divorce, she threatened suicide on several occasions. I pointed out that this was very worrying and something beyond my capabilities to deal with. She complely rejected this idea, saying that the only thing that would stop her feeling like this was for me to stop seeing my dad. I refused.

Some people simply refuse to see the part that they play in their own problems. They refuse to take ANY responsibility.

I have an aunt who is, well, unbearable: selfish, egocentric, tiresome, and basically requires that everyone dance to her tune at all times. She is also rather unhappy (I don't think anyone can really be happy behaving like that), to the point that at one time she threatened suicide because her siblings (as she saw it) were not sufficiently involved in her life. When her siblings told her that she had to see a professional, she said that it was her siblings that had the problem, not her, and that all her problems would be solved if her siblings would just do what she said.

Again, I think it's a good idea to talk to your mother, as perhaps, just perhaps, you might help her. But, most importantly, you will feel that, in any case, you tried to help her. It's up to her to accept your help or not. She's an adult.