Third Opinion

[formerlurker]

Hi everyone,

As my username suggests I have been lurking on the form for quite a while but have never posted before. I'm a bit nervous about doing so but I feel like I really need an unbiased opinion on what's happening in my relationship with my boyfriend. For background, bf and I are both in our early 20s, we've been together for over 3 and a half years and have lived together for 2 and a half years. I'm at uni, he's now graduated and is working.

Generally speaking we're very happy together though there have been a few difficult moments - he and my brother don't get on well together and after completing an internship he was unemployed for a few months before he started his new job. We certainly do argue, though to me it's rarely seemed an abnormal amount, I think bf finds it more of a problem and tends to see arguments as linked together and part of a bigger picture than I do. I tend to be the one to come round in arguments and apologise as I don't like us being in a mood with each other, bf can be a bit stubborn.

Anyway, for the particular instance I want to get people's opinions on. Last Friday bf and I were meant to be going out to the pub - not usually a big deal but we haven't been out in ages due to lack of money. He came home from work a bit early and we were having a nice evening. At around 8:30 he said he needed to phone his parents, I asked him how long he would be as we were meant to be going out, he said he wouldn't be long. I assumed from this he meant about 30 minutes. He ended up being the phone till 9:50. At 9:30 I went into the bedroom and (admittedly, quite angrily) asked him to hurry up, he responded by angrily telling me to go away. As he was on the phone I thought his mum/dad could hear this and was upset at him talking to me like that in their earshot (he later said he'd covered the mouthpiece). At 9:50 he came through to the living room and said "right, are we going out now". I told him I didn't want to go because we'd only be there for 2 hours now, that he'd ruined something I was looking forward to and that I was upset at him ignoring me and being rude to me. He said I was being ridiculous and he was going to the pub, I could join him if I wanted. He then decided not to do this (the memory is a bit of a blur so I can't remember exactly why) and, very angrily, said he was leaving and going to his mum and dad's (they live about 10 miles away, a 40 min public transport journey). As he got his things together I became more and more hysterical and upset, I hate being in the flat on my own at night and I was worried he was leaving me/wouldn't come back. I apologised profusely and begged him not to go, by this point I was in floods of tears and felt on the verge of a panic attack. I said I didn't know what I would do (meaning I didn't know where I would go) and he responded that I shouldn't give him suicide threats and that I could still get to my parents (they live around 50 miles away, though only 1 hour on a very regular, late-running train). He calmed down enough to say he still loved me but he had to go and repeatedly said that we had big problems. He said he would phone on Saturday and be home for Monday, all while I continued to beg him to stay.

I went to my parents that night. Over the entire weekend I received 2 texts - one on Friday in response to me saying I was going to my parents and one on Sunday when I asked him when he was coming home. He didn't call on Saturday. I was very upset the whole weekend, particularly due to lack of contact and not knowing if he'd changed his mind about us. We both came home on Sunday night - as I hadn't spoken to him and had no indication of how he was feeling, I was frightened and upset. He was kind to me when I saw him (and has been since). However, his focus his been upon how I (accidentally, he has said he knows I wouldn't do it on purpose) made him so upset that he had to leave. He says I am obsessed with control and plans and can't cope when things change a tiny bit - he referred to an instance a fortnight ago when I was upset with him because he'd said he would come out in the evening to meet a group of friends with me but he decided not to because he was too tired (this has happened repeatedly). He said that he thinks we should go to relationship counselling. When I said that I was really hurt by him leaving me when I was so upset and then not contacting me, he said that he was just as hurt as I was (if not more) and that was why he had to go and that the contact was unimportant - he'd said he'd come back for Monday. I kept saying that I didn't want to go to counselling if it was just about changing me, he insisted this was not the case but I felt that he was placing all blame on me. Admittedly, I had said that whilst I recognised I'd been a bit petulant on Friday I thought this his reaction was disproportionate.

I have basically agreed to take at least some blame and go to counselling as I felt it was necessary for us to stay together, but I am particularly concerned at his lack of apology over leaving me in the state I was in and not contacting me. My parents and friends are all very angry at him (though I have not told them what he said on Sunday yet). I'm trying to see it from his point of view. I have apologised for upsetting him and I am willing to go to counselling, I am also trying to think about my behaviour on Friday. I'm very confused - I don't want to just be assuming that he's the one mostly in the wrong.

Apologies for the extreme length and thanks to anyone that's bothered to read the whole thing! I've got a lot of mixed up thoughts - I really do love him, as he does me, and can't imagine a future without him, but I don't want to commit to just changing myself. I just really would like an opinion from someone with no connection to either of us. Thanks x

Does he not see/speak to his parents very often? 1 hour 20 is a long time to be on the phone when he knows you're going out, and why did he go to another room to call in private....are you sure it was his parents he was speaking to?

I think he's in the wrong here, he knew you were going out yet he spent that long on the phone and then tried to turn it around on you? Also ignoring you all weekend is just uncalled for really. Do you have regular arguments that end up with him walking out?

He probably speaks to them once a week, I do usually encourage him to phone them. He sees them probably once every 6 weeks or so, though probably more than that recently - we were at their house for 10 days in January as we were in between flats. It was definitely his parents he was on the phone to, I could hear what he was saying. We both usually go into another room when on the phone for more than 5 minutes - if not for any other reason just because it would be annoying for the other person if they're trying to do something else! Yeah that's what I'm worried about, I feel as though he is turning it on me but I'm not sure if I'm being unfair? He has left the flat before - he did last week when we had the argument about him not wanting to go out - but he's always just gone for a coffee/drink/walked around the block. He's never gone to his parents before.

Firstly, I think he was very rude to be on the phone for that amount of time when you had plans and also for cancelling nights out with you a lot.
Secondly, I am really worried about your state of mind with the begging and pleading and making him think you will do something to yourself. You really shouldn't be feeling like that. You seem to have an issue with being abandoned. (Not really helped by him).
I think counselling would be a good idea for you to do alone, without him. He also needs to realise that it is extremely bad form to keep you hanging around waiting for him, especially with your fragility.

Did you have a secure homelife with your parents?

I had a period like this when I was in my late teens, mostly caused by insecure upbringing and microgynon.

Had something happened to his parents that required talking through?

I don't like the general dynamic of the relationship, I'm afraid. What bothers me is that you say you're the one that always caves and tries to keep the peace - and that's not good. I'm worried that you are so insecure that you are begging and pleading for him to stay. It also sounds very peculiar that you are afraid to spend the night in your own home on your own.

Have you ever lived independently as an adult? Is being single alarming to you?

BTW.... if your relationship is only three years old and you're in that uni/first job phase of your life, don't waste your time on counselling. That's for people ten and twenty years older than you with mortgages, kids and a lot riding on the success of a marriage. Sometimes things just run their course and it's a mistake to keep clinging on. Accept it, enjoy the memories and shake hands and wish each other well.

Is he just saying about the councelling to scare you into just going along with every single thing he wants. like don't know if ever your parents threatened you with the doctors if you didn't start eating all your cabbage or whatever I'm worried he's actually doing this to you just so you will go along with anything he wants. If he is then that's pretty cruel....

You seem quite needy.

I think what he did was downright rude!

You mention the last two times you were due to go out together he kicked up a big fuss? You say you both haven't been out for a while due to debts?

Could it be he is avoiding going out with you for some reason? Does he have to pay for example?

IMHO something is not quite right with his behaviour towards you. He has shown a lack of respect and quite frankly he is the one who needs intervention, a lesson in how to treat others maybe.

I'm sorry that you love him. I don't think this will last forever and that is a blessing. Good luck with the future.

He was very wrong to be on the phone so long but your reaction was also a bit ott and you both let it escalate. Is there a problem communicating? It feels a bit controlling that he went to his parents and didn't text you, I doubt it was because he was so upset , it was to punish you. That is not very nice and I think you should seriously consider leaving him.

He is in the wrong. He over reacted first which led you to do so too. He was punishing you. He sounds EA. why on earth would he go to his parents? Are you sure he was there ? Is he manipulating you? Sounds to me like you can't rely on this man and that's partly the source of your insecurity.
I feel really sorry for you. You shouldn't have to put up with this controlling rubbish.

It seems to me he is manipulating situations to be on his own or get away. Take control take charge. Go out without him. Or just leave him.

He knew what he was doing. We're his bags already packed? In his head they were.

I'm not keen on the dynamics in your relationship either - sounds like he's making out that everything wrong is your fault, and he's just the innocent hurt victim.

He knew that you would be scared on your own but still felt the need to leave, over what exactly? Seriously, WHAT? You'd got upset because he spent well over an hour on the phone to his parents, while you were waiting to go out - which is, frankly, fair enough - and then he had a completely hissy fit over you deciding it was then too late to go out (again, fair enough really).

Look at all the other instances of when things happen that make you upset - does he care? Does he stop doing things that upset you? Do you sometimes wonder if he does them deliberately? Do you always apologise when he has upset you?

I agree it might be an idea to consider counselling, but I'd do it without him, tbh.

There is a lot that he did wrong, but it concerns me that you were so
Upset at the idea of going out by yourself with out him or staying home alone that you have him all the power by begging and pleading.

Can you do this normally without him? I am afraid that it will help you stay in a horrible relationship not because you love him but because you are too afraid of being alone.

Basically what you could have done is gone in and said 'I'm going to go to the pub now as we a running late. I will see you there when you are done. Say hi to your folks for me. '

Thank you for all your replies :). I think there is definitely some truth that I am overly reliant on him and that is part of the problem for both of us. I do go out by myself and with friends (without him), but as we met through a mutual interest/hobby and a lot of friends are connected to that they tend to be mutual friends. I have only ever lived with my parents and with him (I was 19 when we started renting together). Tbh with staying on the house on my own it's not particular to the flat, I never liked doing it when I lived with my parents and brothers either. Though I would say in this instance it was more because I was worried about the repercussions of him going to his parents in terms of him making me out to be a hideous monster to them and also what it would mean for our relationship. I have stayed in the flat overnight by myself before, whilst I didn't particularly like it, I was able to do it - on this occasion it was more related to circumstances.

On the Tuesday I did go out without him, I was just a bit put out because I'd wanted him to come and it's a bit embarrassing having to (on a regular basis) explain to our friends why he's not there when it had only been arranged the night before. I'm pretty certain he went to his parents, like I said our friends are pretty much all mutual so I would know if he'd gone elsewhere and I can't see him having any secrets on the side. I have a good relationship with my parents but I definitely have an anxious side and I think maybe the abandonment thing is related to that. I think it is difficult because, unlike the impression you're probably getting here (!), a lot of people tend to see me as quite an independent, outgoing figure; but I think the reality is that whilst I have friends I only really have one friend apart from him that I feel I can talk to about personal stuff, and that friend lives in my home town, so I don't see him all that often and I rely a lot upon bf. I think I'm going to make an effort to be more independent as it would benefit both of us.

I probably am afraid of being single, I've never been single for a long time since I was 16 (even though prior to bf it was mostly just casual relationships as obviously I was very young). Things have been strange here over the past few days. Bf has been very kind and caring, but we haven't really talked about stuff since Sunday. Part of me thinks we should and part of me is scared as I really don't want to hear him repeat that he seems to think a lot of what happened is my fault. I'm finding that difficult to reconcile, it would be easier to enjoy him going back to being his usual nice self but I think it would be a mistake to just forget that. I think it would be a bad idea to just accept him having left me and not contacted me, but at the same time I don't want to upset the new equilibrium.

"I think I'm going to make an effort to be more independent as it would benefit both of us."

I think that's a very good idea. You are too reliant on him.

It's also an unhealthy and imbalanced relationship when you're overly worried about upsetting the equilibrium or worried about what he might say. When you're in that frame of mind, when you're afraid of being single, the danger is you will accept all manner of shit but say nothing. That can be exploited.

This is the time of your life when you should be grabbing onto everything that being an independent, young adult woman has to offer. Live solo, travel solo, try new stuff, meet new people, take yourself out of your comfort zone, make a few mistakes and get a few corners knocked off. There is plenty of time to be 'Sadie Sadie Married Lady' spending all your time fussing over some bloke and having spats about how long he spends on the phone.

Definitely you need to become more self-reliant. There are worse things than being single, and being in a relationship where you feel that everything is your fault and you have to tread on eggshells to avoid upsetting the equilibrium is one of them!

If you don't like living on your own, then look for a flat-share, or lodgings in someone's house; it would be extremely good for your confidence and would help you move towards being able to live by yourself if you need to.

Staying with someone because you think being without them would be worse is probably the worst reason I can think of for staying with them - you don't know how much better your life could be (and I honestly think it would be).

I would also say that if he prefers going to his parents' house than going out with you and friends, then you have other future problems looming and getting out now would be a good plan. Mummy's boys do not good partners make.

Fair enough to say my reaction was over the top, perhaps it was, but I do know there was no family crisis. He didn't and hasn't said anything about one and I could hear his phone call. It was just normal chat, mostly about his new job, when he came off the phone he was fine and there was no suggestion of him going anywhere until he got angry with me. He also has told me then and since that he left because he was upset at my reaction, nothing to do with a family crisis.

I'm 100% with everything Cogito said, and she said it very well. But, and at the risk of sounding like a hoary old crone who doesn't understand... this is drama. I don't mean that you're not actually upset, and it sounds like he's behaved a bit badly, but honestly, this sort of incident is what relationships when you're young are all about. It's a bit like when you're a kid and you're figuring out where boundaries and rules are in life - you're in the childhood of adult relationships, and both of you are still working out where you stand, what sort of relationship you want to have, and, most importantly, what sort of people you are.

I agree with other posters who've said that becoming more self sufficient would be a good thing. I think it'll come to you naturally, and I also think often it comes through painful experience, but nobody is worth panic attacks and sobbing because a phone call to their parents ran long. Again - not saying you over-reacted or were wrong. It sounds like he didn't handle it well, but also that you had a really hard time dealing with what is, in the scheme of things, a fairly minor upheaval. After all, you could've left without him and said you'd meet him there! I can totally see why you didn't, but you could've.

I'm not sure that he sounds like a great guy, at this point. Maybe you'd be better without him for a bit. Or maybe you can get through this together. But I very much agree that counselling is for relationships where you want to stay together in the long long term. And if you're not thinking long long term for this I wouldn't bother with counselling - if you're happy, stay. If not, get rid!