A selfish brother

[wonderwoman21]

Do you ever feel you may be over sensitive sometimes? I know I do :-) I just wanted to share with you something that happened today and why I am here at after 3am in the morning! So, I am estranged from my family and that was their choice. Despite all the pain and heartache caused over the years, I said that my door is still open to them though they have closed their door to me. As I said in my introductory post, I am very lucky to have such an understanding and loving partner but I fear I may rant a little now, so forgive me in advance! It's his brother; I find what his brother does upsetting though my other half just accepts it. His brother is 51 years old, still lives at home with his Dad who is 80, is on dialysis and isn't in the best of health but he is a dear man and I respect and think a lot of him. But my other half's brother has never left home and has taken advantage of his father. He hardly pays him any money, has never contributed towards any bills, doesn't help around the house, leaves him on his own at weekends (and sometimes his Dad collapses due to his diabetes) complains if he has to do anything, complained when he had to take his mother to hospital when she was dying of cancer. He has saved a heap of money from a badly paid job to take his girlfriend on holidays abroad because he has never had any responsibilities and doesn't concern himself with leaving his father. The list goes on :-( He is the most selfish person I have ever met. When he texts my other half, he never asks him how he is, just always talks about the latest beer he is drinking and the band he is listening to, never asks after me. So I said to my other half, doesn't this bother you? The way he is? But he just accepts it, said he has never wished for a better or different brother! I know I am estranged from my family and still love them but I wouldn't (and didn't) accept them treating me so badly. I worry sometimes that though my other half is a loving man, that he lacks a bit of backbone and just has no expectations. Is so accepting! I care for his Dad and see his brother's behaviour as disrespectful. We live too far away for us to step in and help. I wish we could. I know we can't always hope for families like the Waltons (wouldn't that be nice!) but this I just find hard to swallow. Sorry for the rant! :-)

By keeping the peace with his brother your DH is saving a whole lot of stress with his father. Leave him be, just because you're ok with your relationships with your family, don't wish the same on him.

At 51 he is not going to change now.

Don't stress yourself over it.

Just be kind to DFil and hope that that compensates a bit.

If your DH has made peace with his brother's personality and attitude - if he takes a 'live and let live' approach - that's entirely up to him. If the father is happy with the arrangement, ditto. If something about the brother offends you or has a direct negative impact on you, you're entitled to say so. If you're not directly affected I don't think you can insist that your DH gets offended on your behalf.

I understand what you have all said, but this 'live and let live' attitude? That doesn't sit well with me. I think people should care more these days! And show they care. So if the father collapses and dies because no one cares, and no one is there, that's okay? So if I am not directly affected, I shouldn't really care, Cogito? That's not how I am. My other half should be upset on his father's behalf, not on mine. In terms of what you said though. I didn't wish to mention but I have been directly affected by my OH's brother. He has bullied me before and it was horrible, and in public, and my OH didn't stand up for me. And my OH's father is also affected by his son's behaviour. He is lonely and saddened by it all. Whenever we go up there, he complains about his son, how he changes his bed for him, and yet he can't even go to the shop for him...how he makes his tea for him and then just goes to his room and leaves him all alone.
But as Moniker1 said, at 51 he isn't going to change. Looks like others aren't either.

Then you have been directly affected by this person. This puts your DH's attitude to his father in a different light and skews 'live and let live' more towards 'head in the sand' or even 'cowardly'. It would not be surprising if you interpret his lack of care for the poor treatment of the father reflecting his lack of care for poor treatment of you. And then your anger is more understandable.

My late FIL along with his wife excused and enabled his eldest son over many years to everyone's overall detriment. And yes he was cowardly but what was equally as bad if not worst was that they are partly responsible for how their eldest son behaves now. Everything was excused and brushed under the carpet thus creating an elephant in the room. The dynamic never altered.

This dynamic was well in place many years before you came on the scene.

Your man cannot or equally likely will not stand up for himself re his brother for his own reasons of self interest. He having a lack of backbone and no real expectations is a real problem, he's learnt that from his own father.

Thank you Cogito, and this is indeed how I feel, wondering sometimes about my OH being 'cowardly' and I worry for his father, and really feel for him. But even if my OH's brother hadn't done this to me, I would still feel the same. I think sometimes people lack compassion for others. It seems somewhat selfish to think, well if it doesn't affect me, so what? I feel we should question our partner's behaviour if they don't treat someone kindly or stick their head in the sand...it says something about them as people. I don't feel it should be 'live and let live' when someone is suffering because of what is happening.

This is really about power and control.

His father on some level accepts it; he has never challenged his son nor has really stood up to him. That dynamic was not created by just one person and was set in motion many years ago. Each protagonist gets what they want from this dysfunctional relationship. Your compassion for his dad is understandable but you have to think about what he himself did to cause all this to arise.

Your comment Atttila (and thank you) "Your man cannot or equally likely will not stand up for himself re his brother for his own reasons of self interest. He having a lack of backbone and no real expectations is a real problem, he's learnt that from his own father." is exactly it. And your description is what has happened in his family too. This has been going on for years, long before I arrived. I don't even think my OH could see it before me. He has learnt this from his father. His father has just allowed all this to go on.
From a more selfish point of view, I do worry for myself. Here I am with a lovely man, who cares and loves me but I worry about his lack of strength of character and whether that might detrimentally affect our relationship one day.

The DFil could change things though couldn't he (or if not now he certainly could have in the past) - the DFIL could move into a care home and chuck out DS (might involve the police but it could be done). He could pay for a carer/cleaner. But is choosing not to.

Why is the DS like this, is he mentally ill, was he utterly spoilt by his DPs? Was he abused at some point in his childhood? Who knows? But DH and his DF are accepting him as he is. It would be very difficult for DFil to change things now and try to make DS behave considerately, easier to just let it go, all be it complain but with no intention of doing anything. It's unfair to moan to you about it. How can you make a selfish 51 year old into a loving son?

And yes, Attila, I see that too. OH's father has indeed just rolled over and allowed all this to happen and I see those traits in my OH...for reasons of self interest, not wanting to rock the boat, lacking in backbone, etc. I wish it didn't concern me, but it does.

Yep, Moniker1, just complain with no intention of doing anything about it. I don't think it is possible to make a selfish 51 year old into a loving son. Both his parents have just allowed him to get away with it. It shocked me to discover that when their mother was dying, they hardly even noticed it and continued with their lives. My OH makes excuses for his brother, but beneath all this, he is making excuses for himself...not wishing to face the fact that he is cowardly himself :-(

I don't know if cowardly is the correct word as DH also had a probably dysfunctional childhood where somehow the DS became a selfish oaf. The parents have the power in childhood not the DCs and relationships with siblings often follow the same path in adult hood as they did in childhood. (just speaking form my own experience, not an expert in this).

Yes, Moniker1, think you are right. Maybe cowardly is a bit harsh. It takes strength of character to recognise our faults and be able to change them and not everyone is able to do that, sadly :-( Whatever the source. I just try to be 'better' than my parents and to treat people well and kindly. But I do worry for the future and whether my OH is capable of finding the strength one day if he ever needs it or if he can even see that he needs it. As I said, one time his brother bullied me in public and he knew it was happening but simply changed the subject rather than cause a scene, leaving me to feel quite upset.