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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How to go NC with EA, but dependent, grandfather?

16 replies

ElphabaTheGreen · 13/02/2015 21:03

DH's grandfather is a horrible, horrible, entitled man. This is nothing new - he always has been. He is the picture of a gentleman in public and around others, but he is/was EA to DMIL and her late mother. When DMIL was a baby/toddler, her mother bundled her up and walked out on him but, being the 1950s, there was nowhere else to go so had to go back. She went on to experience years of depression and even underwent ECT.

GF will go through several months where he will be perfectly civil, but then something will set him off - quite often it's DMIL and DFIL going on holiday (jealousy, we think, combined with his unshaking belief that it's DMIL's priority and duty in life to look after him, not go off on jaunts). He will then kick off - shouting, swearing at DMIL, calls her a bitch, swears at DFIL, gets on the phone to other (uncaring) family members to tell them what a terrible daughter DMIL is. DH and I have begged DMIL to just back off and leave him to fend for himself for years, but she always goes back to mend fences - and goes back to doing his shopping, doing his laundry, managing his finances, arranging his hospital appointments etc etc. She is his only child, so we think she feels an overwhelming obligation to do this, plus she is devoutly Christian, and we also think she has a genuine fear that others will believe the tripe GF spouts about her being a useless daughter so tries to show she's not. We've told her and told her that this is only going to worsen his behaviour, but she just can't bring herself to go NC.

Tonight, GF told her that he doesn't love her and hopes that she dies of a stroke (she had a sudden seizure a few years ago that was attributed to a cerebrovascular event, so has been monitored regularly for strokes ever since). He also took a swipe at DFIL's face. This has got to stop.

The complicating factor is that he is a fairly frail 92, with quite severe macular degeneration and COPD. He is independently mobile and self-caring, however, so is 'too good' for a care home, not that he would even consider going into one, and wouldn't qualify for, or want, daily care input from social services. He has full capacity and has no (diagnosed) MH issues, so there is no way of making him go into care against his will. He could go on for years yet just to spite us so it's not a case of just waiting a few months more for him to quietly fall off his perch.

DMIL would only consider going NC if he was suitably maintained at home. He has a cleaner, so obviously she could be paid extra to do laundry and make his bed. Finances are all direct debit, so no real input is needed there, unless things change, which would need DMIL's input. She also reads his post for him. Shopping and meals are a real stumbling block - DMIL does his shopping online and orders him Wiltshire Farm Foods, which requires weekly contact to sort out what he wants. Social services carers and Age UK will not do this. They would heat up or do simple preparation of food that is already in the house, but he can do that himself. It's the getting it in that DMIL is stuck doing. Also, he's completely incapable of doing things like arranging hospital appointments for himself because he can't see the numbers on his (large button) phone well enough to dial and can't write down phone numbers if they're given to him for arranging things like hospital transport. He has no other family or friends who could or would do any of this for him, and DH and I are certainly not going to do it for him.

Has any one got any experience or advice in this situation?

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 13/02/2015 21:31

Do you really think, however awful he is, that she will 'abandon' him now?

It's not really likely is it, sadly.

ElphabaTheGreen · 13/02/2015 22:04

In truth, no. But is there anything we can do to stop this cycle?

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purplecloud123 · 13/02/2015 22:07

Is it possible any of the other family members could help out?

ElphabaTheGreen · 13/02/2015 22:14

There are no other family members. The only local one is his sister who is almost as old, unpleasant and incapable as he is. The one or two others are miles away and wouldn't have anything to do with him.

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Branleuse · 13/02/2015 22:14

just be there for her. He will be dead soon enough

Let her know that shes done more than enough, and noone thinks his treatment of her is ok

Rowanhart · 13/02/2015 22:27

I think what you need to do is take some of the burden off tbh.

DMIL won't abandon her Dad now. He is still her Dad. But he's not yours and sounds like you've got the measure of him.

What if you and DH took over a couple of responsibilities/one visit a week.

And make it clear to the cantankerous old get that if he raises his hands he'll get a swift hit back.

ElphabaTheGreen · 14/02/2015 06:46

I really can't - I'm looking after my own mum who is disabled, plus 2yo and 6mo DSs. I'll be back at work FT in April so am already hyperventilating slightly about how the hell I'm going to get everything done.

DH works two jobs - FT during the day, then his own business which takes up most evenings and weekends, and he'd really like to see his kids at some point! He also really doesn't want to have anything to do with a person who told his very kind, generous and lovely mum that he hopes she dies of a stroke. I'll see what he thinks about doing the online shop and ordering his meals, even just for a little bit. He'll have no qualms about putting the phone down on him if he gets abusive, whereas DMIL will try to engage.

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FabulousUsername · 14/02/2015 07:18

elphaba reading this made my blood boil! Obviously when your DGMIL (?) was alive there was no opportunity to call Women's Aid or confront him on his abuse so he's got away with it, so to speak, all these years and what you're having to deal with seems to be the logical conclusion of that sort of life. Can you involve any agencies, and tell them what a bully he is? I think pp's are right, support your MIL as much as possible but if you can, point out to her that what he's doing isn't right. She might be carrying a lot of fear, obligation and guilt as well! However I'd be careful, as he's older and 'vulnerable', not to do anything that could be seen to be abusing him. Could he possibly have vascular dementia do anything that causes him to have angry outbursts?

Good luck. I suppose, like dealing with an entitled misogynistic man of any age, he's incapable of empathy and thinks he has every right to act like that. Sad!

lougle · 14/02/2015 07:28

What about asking for a care assessment via social services, ask for it to be delivered as direct payments, then employ someone as a PA to him.

ElphabaTheGreen · 14/02/2015 08:18

lougle That's an interesting idea. Given that he's independent in self-care and basic domestic tasks, though, would he actually qualify for anything?

Fabulous He really is awful. He made DGMIL keep doing all the housework between vomiting bouts when she was dying of stomach cancer Sad Unfortunately, unless he's had vascular dementia since birth, he's just a certifiable arsehole. He's such a heavy smoker that I'm sure he's probably got quite a lot of reduced blood supply to the brain, but not enough for a formal diagnosis of anything. I'm an occupational therapist and the majority of my career has been spent in care of the elderly so I'm acutely aware of ensuring that DMIL is kept entirely away from any potential vulnerable adult situation/s. It concerns me that she and FIL have GF's savings in their name - I understand it entirely from a convenience point of view and they are completely above board about how they use it. They strictly only use it to pay for his essentials, and never for themselves or anyone else. However, they also see it very much as DH's inheritance and re-payment for the years of abuse he's meted out. They got up in arms yesterday when I suggested that they just put the whole lot back in his name for him to deal with, as they know he'd divide it up among his elderly sisters just to spite them. I tried to delicately point out that not doing this could be very easily and rightfully seen as financial abuse, but they really weren't in a place yesterday evening to have that discussion, but it is very much in my mind. I think they would, yet again, go crawling back to him just to protect the money. I know for a fact that DH couldn't give two shits about the money - it isn't even that much, think low five figures - and just wants his mum to stop phoning him in floods of tears every few weeks.

OP posts:
FabulousUsername · 14/02/2015 08:55

If his DM is phoning in tears it isn't good, I cannot imagine what your DH feels, having him call her a bitch. Not on! I think it would be advisable to speak to Age Concern or similar, about the money? If its in a separate account and traceable, fine, but could you imagine if DM annoyed him one day and a visiting gp or nurse heard him ranting about how his ungrateful DD had stolen all his money, and it came to an investigation and she got blamed...I'm imagining he might be gloating with delight to be proved right, just maybe! Your poor DMIL needs to see its not ok, doesn't look like she will get a late thanks for all she's done. I hate him on your behalf!

I was just going to type 'hopefully he will die soon' but that seems really horrible, sorry!

FabulousUsername · 14/02/2015 08:58

P.S. re the DGMIL doing housework when she was ill, awful! Why are people like this? Someone needs to stand up to him.

ElphabaTheGreen · 14/02/2015 10:36

That's exactly what I think might happen WRT the money as well Famous. And you've only joined the end of a long queue who've wished him dead for a long time!

I expressed this concern to DH this morning who confirmed, absolutely, that he couldn't give two hoots about the money. He just wants his mum to stop being abused by this horrible man.

I mentioned him taking over the online shop and meal ordering this morning. He doesn't think his parents will accept that as they don't want him burdened with the old bastard. DH has gone around to GF's house now to read him the riot act and/or try and sort something out. I've lost count of how many times this has happened now... Sad

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AHatAHatMyKingdomForAHat · 14/02/2015 11:31

There is nothing you can do. They are willing to put up with abuse. They have been for decades. There is no way it will change now.

Actually, there is one thing you could do: encourage DMIL to go to counselling. This abuse only happens because she lets it.

AHatAHatMyKingdomForAHat · 14/02/2015 11:32

Do you reckon she would be willing to do the Freedom Programme?

ElphabaTheGreen · 14/02/2015 11:45

I've just Googled The Freedom Programme - it looks more like it's intended for live-in partners of abusers...?

I'm not sure that she would go to counselling because I don't know that she sees it as having a major impact on her day to day life. I think a major barrier that she has is that she's one of those who knows everyone in town, and has a huge amount of family around (from her mother's side who will have absolutely nothing to do with GF) and can't shake the belief that people will believe him at some level when he starts spouting to all that will listen that she's a terrible daughter. We've told her and told her that anyone who knows him even slightly will know he's full of it and that she is absolutely in the clear. She acknowledges this at an intellectual level, but I think it's so deep-rooted from growing up with the horrible man that she might be seen as inadequate, that it just keeps making her go back to patch things up. She's very much a Type-A, perfectionist who doesn't want to be seen as anything less than perfect (all fits, doesn't it?) so will do anything to hold it all together.

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