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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Looking for some insight on my relationship with my mother

6 replies

valsamicbinegar · 12/02/2015 15:22

NCed for this…

Prompted by the lovely thread about ‘how did you know your mum loved you?’, but not quite so lovely. I grew up with a mother who was cold, critical, and pretty much always stressed and miserable about something. Not abusive as such, but very little love and looking back some shocking incidents – such as me crying about being bullied and her responding ‘I can’t help it if no-one likes you’, her deciding at about age 8 that I should have short hair instead of the long hair I loved, and hacking it off with a kitchen scissors whilst I cried my eyes out, being forced as a teenager to look after my younger sibling 3 or 4 nights a week so that she could go out with her boyfriend, and so on. I have tried and tried to dredge up a happy memory, one of her cuddling me or reading to me, or playing with me, or telling me she loved me, and I have come up with absolutely nothing. I just remember wondering a lot why my mum wasn’t like other mums, why she didn’t like me, why she never had time to play with me.

Fast forward 20 odd years, and we have an amicable enough relationship, but fairly distant / don't see each other that often, by my choice – however since I became an independent adult she has changed completely (presumably because I no longer need anything from her?) and behaves as if we have always had a perfectly normal loving relationship.

In the last few years or so she has become an entirely different person, tells me she loves me every time we speak, clings onto me and cries when I leave after visiting (max 2 -3 times a year). She’s recently been widowed and wants to spend more time with me, expects me to call several times a week, is offering to help me and DP out financially when we don’t really need it, has asked us to help her with practical things round the house etc etc. And I’m finding it really uncomfortable, particularly the extended hugging and physical contact she seems to want when I see her. She says I’m the only person she feels she can speak to about her grief over her husband dying.

She wants to lean on me emotionally and practically, and I cannot fathom how a) she has changed so much from the (perhaps depressed?) mother of my bloody miserable childhood, and b) how I now deal with the neediness that she’s displaying. She doesn’t seem to recognise at all that she wasn’t ever really there for me and was very unloving, and when I have tried to bring a couple of incidents up with her she just starts to cry and says I don’t understand and then refuses to talk about it. And now she wants me to be there for her. I’m struggling to understand it…..anyone have any insights?

OP posts:
pocketsaviour · 12/02/2015 15:58

Hello valsamic,

it sounds as if she has spent most of your life getting her emotional needs from her husband/boyfriends and not giving you really much thought or attention.

Now all of a sudden she's on her own and cannot bear to be, because she has no inner resources to rely on and needs someone around reflecting her and giving her worth. Now she is turning to you because she has no-one left. I wonder why Hmm

when I have tried to bring a couple of incidents up with her she just starts to cry and says I don’t understand and then refuses to talk about it.
Fairly typical toxic behaviour I'm afraid. So she is still minimising your feelings, not caring that she hurt you, and instead paints herself as the victim and expects you to care for her emotional needs!

You have no obligation to meet those needs. You are perfectly entitled to walk away, you owe her NOTHING. She failed to meet your needs when you were a child and she is still not meeting your needs as an adult. It is all about HER.

You might benefit from visiting the Stately Homes thread where there are plenty of people who have also dealt with their own unloving parents.

Good luck Flowers

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/02/2015 16:07

She is being totally unfair to you by saying that she can only talk to you about her grief re her late H.

BTW you mention a sibling, does he/she have any sort of a relationship with mother these days?. Also do you know anything about her own background?. That can often give clues.

It is NOT your fault she is the ways she is; her own family of origin unleashed all that dysfunction onto her.

She was also a crappy parent to you as a child and is now behaving very much the same to you as an adult. There is still really no apology (not that you would ever receive this) nor any acknowledgement of her taking any responsibility for her actions (any attempts on your part to talk about the past get shut down by her or she reverts to turning on the waterworks). I also note she is trying to financially obligate you to her as well. Resist all attempts by her to give you money, she will use that as yet another hold over you.

It is more than okay to now walk away from your all too needy and dependent mother. At the very least you need to reassess your own boundaries with regards to her as they are way too low.

I would also suggest you post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread that pocketsaviour has kindly linked for you as well as reading "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward.

shovetheholly · 12/02/2015 16:09

I can relate to what you say, OP. So here are some rather scattered and piecemeal thoughts.

My mother was violently abusive growing up, hated physical contact and was extremely intrusive sexually as well as being verbally critical. She would do terrible things when she got angry, which I won't put down here because of triggers etc.

I have a sister, though, with whom she is all sweetness and light.

One of the things that helped me was realising that she also had a dreadful upbringing herself and was to some extent repeating a pattern of scapegoating one sibling and treating the other as a golden child. I think reading up on this really helped me to understand how it wasn't actually about me, but about preserving a kind of dynamic in the family that was wrong and unhealthy, but about which I could do nothing. Now the key word there is the word 'dynamic' - your father's death will have changed everything for her, so suddenly you are moved from being the scapegoat to a very different, 'insider' position. This explains the sudden switch in behaviour. If you confront it, you will be told that it never existed because the most important thing for mothers who are abusive in this way is to maintain the fiction that everything is OK, and that any problems were external to them. (Control is a huge issue in these situations, and accepting blame equates somehow in their minds to a loss of it).

This is absolutely NOT to say that the feelings she's expressing for you aren't genuine. I think they very probably are and I also believe in my own case and perhaps in yours too that very, very deep down, my mother knows and regrets what she did. So the first thing is really: accept that things have changed, and that it's not your perceptions going wonky! And have a look at scapegoating as a concept, because it might be helpful.

Secondly, I think humanising the person helps. Illness, particularly depression, does affect behaviour. My mother was definitely mentally ill, and was also very socially isolated. The worst extremes of her behaviour happened when she completely lost control. Of course, she was deeply 'wrong' to act this way, but she was under a lot of pressure. Realising that mothers aren't always perfect is actually quite empowering.

Thirdly, as an extension of that, I have realised that it's easy to look at other families and think they are perfect and that we have 'missed out'. But that way of thinking only leads to endless and needless regrets. We have what we have, and we can only go forward and build a better life around ourselves.

However, as my mother has become more vulnerable, I took a very conscious and deliberate decision to forgive her everything that she had done, and to accept what she did have to offer as an older person. I also took a decision to contribute to the relationship without regard to what I 'got back' even though it is still very one-sided on my part. Now this might sound very altruistic and selfless, but it's not. It's actually the only thing I've worked that gives me peace and lets me get rid of the all the anger I felt (and my word, the anger was like a self-destructive hurricane blowing inside me at times - it nearly destroyed me when I was in my late teens). I feel like I love my mother very deeply now, but that I am also independent of what she says and thinks. If she criticises me and it's unjust, I just push it away. If she hugs me, I can just accept that without feeling regrets. I couldn't do that before - it would start off a chain reaction that would total me.

I think one of the most disempowering roles we accept is that of someone's victim. It means they define us. I'm not saying we should deny the abuse that happens, more that we shouldn't let anger become the thing that rules our relationships. That doesn't mean that feeling anger is 'wrong', just that we can sometimes move beyond it with time.

However, getting to this point took me 20 years so the final thing I wanted to say is that it's really, really OK to feel uncomfortable with this sudden switch and the feelings it's bringing up. It will take a long time to work it all through, for you will have got used to a status quo in which you had a very different emotional status, so this change is bound to be bewildering and a little frightening.

I also wanted to say that I think our relationship with loved ones and particularly mothers kind of bleeds into other relationships too. I started to practice (in quite a deliberate way, like you practice an instrument) feeling compassion in situations where it didn't really matter. Like when I got annoyed in traffic because someone was being selfish on the road, and I would just take a moment and try to imagine that the other person maybe had a terrible day, or just lost someone, and to be nice and wave or smile at them rather than getting irate. I worked up from these insignificant things to my mother. I didn't really intend to do this as a project, it just happened by accident, over a long time and it was only once I had got to the point of feeling genuinely sorry for my mother instead of angry that I realised what had happened.

Finally, this is what worked for me. But we are all different and your truth will be different from mine. So please just push away anything that doesn't feel 'right' for you. Smile

CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/02/2015 17:17

She sounds rather selfish and shallow. Everything you describe is her doing her own thing, seeking attention, not big on responsibility. Children tend to be a bit of an inconvenience for someone like that whereas, as an adult, you're far more useful.

GoatsDoRoam · 12/02/2015 18:17

It doesn't sound like she has changed at all from what she was like when you were a child: it's still all about her, her needs come first.

Stick to your distance and rare visits, don't accept her offers of money (it comes with strings attached), and make sure that she only takes up a space in your life that you are comfortable with. eg. only phone as often as you feel comfortable with.

valsamicbinegar · 16/02/2015 15:57

Hello all...sorry it's taken me so long to reply. Thank you so much for all your thoughts.....there is a lot there for me to think about there. Some of it really chimes with me, some not so much. This bit particularly:

Now all of a sudden she's on her own and cannot bear to be, because she has no inner resources to rely on and needs someone around reflecting her and giving her worth

I think there is a lot of truth in this - I feel like she needs me to play along with her idea of how things were so that she maintains the pretence to everyone that everything was normal. I think there's a face that she wants to present to the outside world now of "my daughter will look after me now" because that's what good daughters who love their mothers do isn't it?

Am currently on Day 4 of not calling her - I have reiterated to her time and time again that she can call me if she wants to chat, but she just says she 'doesn't like to' and 'you might be busy'. And then she never calls, and I feel guilty, and I end up calling her. Trying to resist it right now! I have to keep reminding myself that she is an adult too, she's not old, she's not frail, and there is no reason for me to act like the parent in this relationship, which I feel like at the moment.

Work in progress......

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