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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Rape charge against ex. Do I have to allow my medical notes to be released?

30 replies

MsPunky · 11/02/2015 18:10

Before I report my ex to the police I spoke to my GP about the rape.

The police want to have my medical notes. I gave permission but now I've found out that as this would be evidence my ex's legal team will have to be given a copy of my notes. This means my ex will see them too. I feel sick at the thought of him seeing what I said.

Do I have to let them be released? Will it undermind my case if I don't?

Why does it feel like I'm the one being investigated!!!? I'm not even allowed proper counselling until after the court case in case the defence say I've been coached in what to say! The implication being that I might lie in court!! The system is so wrong.

OP posts:

AltheaVestrit · 11/02/2015 18:13

Can Rape Crisis help or provide support in some way?

I'm sorry you're still going through such a terrible experience.

Original poster

MsPunky · 11/02/2015 18:19

I've seen a counsellor via rape crisis. They've been brilliant but can only give me counselling after the court case. They said its standard procedure for the police to apply for medical records. I just feel so exsposed and laid bare.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 11/02/2015 18:22

Another one wondering if you've got legal or other professional advice. I've never before heard that a rape victim isn't allowed treatment or counselling. Who told you that? As for your medical notes, if they are relevant to the case and being presented as evidence, then the prosecution and defence teams both get access. Not because you're on trial but because all evidence has to be tested. As you're telling the truth, it will withstand the test

Original poster

MsPunky · 11/02/2015 18:26

It was the people at my local RASAC that told me that. I can have 'pre trial counselling' I can talk about lots of stuff but I can't talk about the actual rapes.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 11/02/2015 18:30

OK. .. thinking about it I get the 'counselling = coaching' remark. Not because I think you would be coached but because a clever defence lawyer could try to make it look that way. However if you get no treatment for the trauma, a clever defence lawyer might argue that you weren't traumatised. So best to take the advice of Rape Crisis or your solicitor.

The trouble with a lot of rape cases is that it ends up as one person's word against another's. Especially if much time has passed or if there was no report made at a time when physical evidence can be gathered. ( I'm making a lot of assumptions). All you can do is tell the truth as consistently and as clearly as possible, however difficult that may become

gildedcage · 11/02/2015 18:33

I'm in litigation, not criminal though. Both sides will have access to the evidence, which in this case may or may not include your medical notes, however it has never been my experience that I would allow my client to have sight of these types of confidential documents.

Original poster

MsPunky · 11/02/2015 18:33

You're right in you assumptions. It took two years for me to report it so there is no physical evidence. I just couldn't cope with it at the time. All I could focus on was making sure me and dc were ok. Having to talk to the police at the time would have sent me over the edge.

OP posts:

MuthaHubbard · 11/02/2015 18:36

Not sure which force you come under. Medical records and a doctors statement are a usual request made by police in these sorts of cases. Usually (i obv cant say for definite as each case different) it would only be relevant parts of the records that would be disclosed if necessary and would be redacted. A docs statement regarding any treatment relating to the offence will be the main part of the evidence. Hope that makes sense - posting from phone

CogitoErgoSometimes · 11/02/2015 18:38

So you've talked to your GP & the rape support group. Have you reported it to the police that the medical notes are being requested or is that the next step? Have you got as far as making a formal statement?

Original poster

MsPunky · 11/02/2015 18:43

I come under Cheshire police. It's reassuring to know that it's only the relevant part of my medical notes that will be released.

It's the police who are requesting my medical notes. It's because I spoke to my GP about the rape about 6 months before reporting it.

I have made a video statement. Ex was arrested and interviewed. He denied raping me.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 11/02/2015 18:49

Do you have legal representation?

MuthaHubbard · 11/02/2015 18:51

Thats what they will be after - the bit where you spoke to your GP - it is further evidence to confirm what you are saying.
In my force we would request a statement and records with your permission. We would then serve the docs statement (confirming what you told them) as evidence and then list your records as sensitive material. If CPS/defence requested sight of the records then we would redact but every force is slightly different.
Could you state you only give permission for relevant records to be obtained and not anything else?

MuthaHubbard · 11/02/2015 18:52

P.s. - sorry this has happened to you xx

Original poster

MsPunky · 11/02/2015 19:10

I don't have a solicitor yet. I don't even know if I can get legal aid, tbh I don't know how it all works at all.

I think I'm going to speak to the PC who is dealing with my case tomorrow and make sure it's only the relative parts of my notes that will be released.

I am being treated for depression and panic attacks and I don't want all that to be released to the defence. I've talked about some really personal things with my GP and I don't want all that to be known to my ex.

OP posts:

MuthaHubbard · 11/02/2015 19:36

Good luck with everything.
Deffo speak to the officer in the case and tell them that, at this stage, you are happy to give permission for your GP to provide a statement re the relevant info. Any doctor would be happy to do that, and just stick to those facts as it strengthens your case.
Also confirm what would be disclosed (and it what way) if you did give consent for full records - as I say every force/cps is slightly different so wouldn't want you to say yes to everything and then things are disclosed which you aren't happy about.

MuthaHubbard · 11/02/2015 19:37

*(and IN what way)

MuthaHubbard · 11/02/2015 19:43

Just another thought - are the depression and panic attacks as a result of the things that happened? Please don't answer me if you don't wish to but it might be worth asking for that to mentioned as, in a way, this could also assist the case by showing the lasting effects it has had on you. Not that you have to of course, though if you do provide a Victim Personal Statement, the officer may ask you to include that info - again only if you wanted to.

Original poster

MsPunky · 11/02/2015 20:02

Thank you. I have had depression before but i was very well until all this happened. I've really gone down hill since. The panic attacks are definitely because of what happened. I struggle in public when there are men who might be too close to me like in a queue or something.
I'm back at my GP in a couple of weeks so I'm going to speak to her about it all.

OP posts:

Summerbreezer · 11/02/2015 20:09

OP, not much to add but I am a criminal barrister who specialises in sex cases. Feel free the PM me if you want to ask anything about to process. Good luck

Twinklestein · 11/02/2015 20:10

I am not a lawyer, but to the best of my knowledge what RASAC is not true.

Some police forces and courts advise crime complainants not to have therapy until after the trial in case it alters their testimony. It's apparently quite common particularly in cases of current or historic sex abuse.

However, the Home Office introduced guidelines in 2001 which banned police or CPS from preventing victims from seeking therapy. These rules make clear that the decision as regards counselling can only be made by the complainant and their doctors.

This was highlighted by the terrible case of Frances Andrade, who you may recall committed suicide after testifying at the trial of an ex-teacher for rape.

It turned out that the while the Greater Manchester police had advised her how to get counselling, her local Surrey police told her not to have counselling until after the trial, even though she was suicidal.

The Attorney General ordered an investigation of Surrey police force as a result.

link

Twinklestein · 11/02/2015 20:16

It may be that your local RASAC has agreed guidelines with their local police force/CPS, and this is well-meant advice to protect your court testimony.

Original poster

MsPunky · 11/02/2015 20:22

Thank you, that's really helpful. I'll have a look at that link.

There's so much going on and my anxiety levels are so high, I feel frozen with fear. I have nightmares about him every night and wake up feeling panicky.

SummerBreeze, thank you, I may well do that as I've so many questions about what will happen in court.

OP posts:

MyRightFoot · 11/02/2015 20:53

i continued my therapy, no one suggested i stop it. none of my counselling was used against me in court. if his defence bring up ur depression and panic attacks, u can say he caused them or made them worse. the police will also want your phones so b aware that the content could b used against u. befor handing them over, upload all txts between you and him. i didnt get one of my phones back for a year. they may also go to ur employers for info if relevant. yes you will be treated like a defendant but without a defendants privileges. he can see all your evidence but you cant see his. im telling you honestly i regret going through with it, the mental cost was too high and i tried to kill myself. no one can understand how horrific it is till u go through it.

Original poster

MsPunky · 11/02/2015 21:23

It's bloody awful. I'm so sorry you had to go through that, Myrightfoot. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm doing the right thing. I thought I was strong but my mental health is suffering.
The thing that scares me the most is what the defence might ask me in court. I know they can be brutal.

My ex was arrested a year after we seperated for being in possession of images of child abuse. He is currently in prison. Does anyone know if that will be brought up in court? It gives a good indication as too his character.

OP posts:

MyRightFoot · 11/02/2015 21:58

prior convictuons are rarely used in court as that would not be giving him a fair trial. if hes found guilty for the rape on you the judge will tale his past crime into consideratuon when sentencing. i dont want to put you iff because i am proud for seeing it thru despite a not guulty verdict. he spent a year on remand which makes me smile. but at this stage everyone calls you brave and it lulls you into thinking you will get justice. nothing prepares you for court, i felt like a gladiator in an arena.

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