I can never understand our arguments - help me decipher.

[YesAnastasia]

Or am I in the wrong like he says?

I'll try to tell you both sides if I can although it's hard to be objective.

Today I was upset that although I had said DS couldn't have his tablet until after lunch, DH came & sat down with him, with his tablet & they were looking at it together. Twice DS tried to ask me for permission but DH interrupted him both times & they carried on looking at the tablet even though their lunch was on the table. DH ignored me so DS did too.

I raised this point with DH who had taken the tablet to the table and he didn't respond, just stared at the tablet.

I got annoyed & asked him to come off the device so I can discuss it.

It has turned into this almighty row (while DS is here) where he is upstairs refusing to talk now because he's upset.

The issue of obsession with devices & games shared by DH & DS is being ignored because he said I was attacking him & that if he needs to change then so do I. I don't understand his point. I honestly don't.

DS has Asperger's & as far as I believe DH does to. We need to work together so that DS doesn't let this take over his life like I've seen happen to members of DH's family & to a certain extent DH.

I have no idea what to do. Or say. He makes me so angry because all he wants to do it come out on top of an argument & all I want is to be heard. All he will do is justify everything he has said & done so that he can be better than me & not perceived to be in the wrong. The issues are never discussed properly until he's destroyed me & has me in floods of tears, hating him.

Oh God, I need help, I need perspective. I can't stand this any more.

I don't even think any of THAT makes sense. I don't know what's happening to me.

Oh, OP, I don't have much advice but I didn't want to read and run.

You are absolutely in the right, and the behaviour of your DH is outrageously disrespectful, but I am honestly not sure how on earth you can battle this one. How are family? Can you get DH's relatives to support you and have a word with him?

I think you've explained it very clearly. I think that he is very defensive (asperger-related?) and therefore hears what you say as an attack without listening to the actual content and whether or not it is reasonable. It also sounds to me like he has got hold of the idea that it takes two to make an argument, so thinks that if there is one, it must be your fault too and therefore you need to change to.

Gawd knows how you get him to understand any of this, and gawd knows how you will stand it...

There may be a little mis-communication going on here too. It happens to me and DW all the time. I say the DC can't have something and she gives it to them and vice versa.
No need to get all humpy about it though, deal with it like adults.

We normally take each other aside so we can't be heard and sarcasticly mention that it would be nice to have known x, y or z.

Assuming he has AS and isn't just an arse I can imagine DH bridles at criticism and would find your upset baffling - he won't pick up on the usual cues - he won't give an inch and confidently expects you to give way.

How you cope with the ordinary slings and arrows of married life in such circumstances ie a partner who drowns you out is a tough one. As you have DS and need to agree on parenting strategies like any parent team it must be dealt with.

You can only do the best you can with NT qualities to understand AS traits. I am sorry I don't have the experience or knowledge to help but I am sure there have been past posts on Relationships on this subject.

The only website I can think of where you might find similar AS/NT couples and their stories is Wrongplanet.net which you probably know of already.

There's miscommunication every time we speak. He thinks I'm a horrible person & he's always pissed off with me for some reason or other. Dick.

I'm fed up with it. I'm convinced he only wants to stay together because he thinks his relationship with the kids will suffer.

He hasn't even looked Asperger's up (or my depression) that's my responsibility like everything else.

OK, that's why he wants to stay together.

Why do you want to stay together?

I do love him. Not nearly as much as I did. I don't really want to stay together.

I'm scared & too ill to leave right now.

You may recover once he's out of your life. It happens quite often.

However, if you're not ready for that, you need to find a way of letting him know that a discussion is not an attack. Discussion is done so both people end up in a 'winning' position, or rather, that no one 'loses'; it's not a battle. It's purpose is to look dispassionately at a problem and find a solution which suits your shared goals. How you do that, I don't know. He sounds like a man who sees even a tiny criticism as a global attack.

I really feel for you and I'm so sorry to hear how it is upsetting you :-(

I suspect my dp also has aspergers (and he fleetingly acknowledges this but won't look it up either even though his son is currently being assessed). on and off we've had LOTS of arguments that went like yours. We have broken up over this dynamic and got back together twice. The message sunk in when it ended and he actually realised what a big problem his refusal to listen was (We don't live together so it is easier than your situation). He has since REALLY turned things around but then I am completely besotted with him and he really really fell through the floor when it ended so was motivated. Do you think he would realise if this happened?

This is what I've learnt: You can't get your point across using reason or logic because they're better at that and it will just turn into an endless argument that is never resolved because of them utterly SHITTING THEMSELVES when you raise ANY criticism of their behaviour. You also can't get your point across by getting very emotional because (in my experience) this terrified him even more and he went into overload. You also can't get your point across if you make too many points at once because of overload. Lots of don'ts. But I have had to change lots of things about the way I communicate too. I've had to accept he won't see what is wrong with what he has done (e.g. undermining you at the dinner table) unless I point it out at the earliest opportunity AND he will be fed up with me for doing that, but if I can weather the initial storm, be very factual and not lose my temper I have found some do's. Talking like this: 'You did x. I feel x and DS feels x. I need you to do x instead, then we will all feel x and there will not be a problem any more.' Repeat as necessary. It's exhausting but I have found it works.

By the way it makes total sense and I agree that undermining is unacceptable. Clearly your DS needs to know the rules and what your DH is doing is going to disrupt the structure you have established.

I also ralise what I said above is probably no good now that you are already really really exhausted from an argument, so I am sorry if it seems flippant and over simplified. It's just what I've found helpful.

His asbergers is preventing him from seeing or understanding your point of view. He also does not see arguing as a two way interaction or even an arguement as we see it. He sees it as something to win. His opinion will be the correct one in his head and you will be told. He will also have huge difficulty empathising.
This is how he is. This is part of what makes him autistic. It must be very hard for you. He can learn how people feel but not really get it. They can also adapt and think about how another may feel but this will not come naturally.
It must be very hard living with him.

sixandtwothrees That's some seriously helpful advice there! Honestly, I love that you've broken it down for me. I feel like you really understand. I tell him (while he's pushing me away) that he'll regret this, and one day I will go but nothing matters when he's like that. He'd let me leave because it's happened before. But he has nothing without me. I don't mean that in an insulting way but I don't think he ever expected a wife & a family like this. I think in some ways he's proud of us but then his ridiculous arrogance & pride get in the way & he gets like this. I'm going to follow your advice to the letter. I think he may well be relieved when it starts to work too.

Yes jux he's mortally wounded when I just tell him the truth about things he's done. He gets upset when I point out what's happening. I'm incredulous during these arguments (when I'm not using every ounce of my willpower to not kill him).

Heyho The difficulty in empathising is why he takes it so far, I have to be broken before he feels anything. I have had depression for a long time but he ignores that it's there, ignores when I'm struggling emotionally, ignores when I need a break - all of it - until I fall apart. Why can't he just be nice to me? I am exhausted. I'm trying so hard to emotionally educate my son, to help him form relationships better because he struggles in school with his peers but I can't do that if his obsession with games takes him into his own world full of weird & fantasy creatures with no interaction at all. It's all they talk about together. It makes me furious with DH.

He's been out to buy me flowers. Ones he knows I don't like Then asked to put it behind us. How am I supposed to get well with this shit going on all the time? He won't even admit he has Asperger's & takes it as an insult most of the time.

Sorry, that rant was long but you guys seem to really get it. It's so rare to get that.

He makes me so angry because all he wants to do it come out on top of an argument & all I want is to be heard. All he will do is justify everything he has said & done so that he can be better than me & not perceived to be in the wrong. The issues are never discussed properly until he's destroyed me & has me in floods of tears, hating him.

This perfectly sums up arguments with my ex, and I'm afraid that that's why he's my ex .

By the way, re: the Aspergers thing: I have to stick my oar in, as a female Aspie, and point out that I manage to empathise, to not take things personally, and to have discussions that actually resolve issues and don't descend to point scoring. I may not naturally be that way inclined, but I've learnt how to do it...because that's part of being a well rounded adult. If your DP doesn't do this, it's not because he has Aspergers. It's because he doesn't care enough about it to work out how to do it.

(I could write an immense diatribe about the different ways male and female Aspies typically behave, and why I think that is, but that's a whole thread of its own- and one for the Feminism section I think ).

You can't get your point across using reason or logic because they're better at that and it will just turn into an endless argument that is never resolved because of them utterly SHITTING THEMSELVES when you raise ANY criticism of their behaviour.

Ha, you know what, sixandtwothrees? Even if you ARE better at using reason or logic (and I must admit I'm shit hot if I say so myself ) it doesn't work with this kind of defensiveness- it just makes them worse. Much, much worse....

I'd read that feminism thread stubborn but I can guess the outcome. Tell me more Aspie life hacks! And you sixandtwo you could really sort my life out.

Thanks for that. You're right, it would just make him worse, up his game. Earlier he researched something I'd said about raising ASD kids just to prove me wrong. Nice that he couldn't research raising ASD kids when we're raising one

You know, I'm a very emotionally aware person. I'm nurturing & intuitive with DS and would be with DH but he doesn't want it. I have a husband & a son who rarely emotionally connect with me, I have to force them to (and with DS it's worth it). Thank God for DS2, he is a little ray of emotional sunshine.

Malabrig0 No, it's true. He's unreasonable in other areas especially money. I've got a feeling he's been in a bad mood recently because it's half term soon & I've asked him for a little extra. Also, I mentioned that I wanted a new pair of curtains for the living room, he went mental, really nasty.

It's not just his Asperger's, he feels powerless in the world but can dominate me because I love him & he sees that as a weakness, always has (and he admitted it once) MIL says I should be grateful because he'd never mess around on me. FFS. Don't think he'd hit me either, what a catch

It is immensely difficult. And no, Aspergers isn't an excuse for being nasty to you. I also think a lot of this stuff gets far worse with stress. Like other stress means literally the pool of resource for dealing with you is reduced, or empty. But the money thing is not great and the feeling of weakness is not great either... I shall chew over that, it's not very healthy is it? Does he have any friends? Like even one person that would mean he wasn't 100% reliant on you?

I do think on the computer game thing there is nothing more valuable to an obsessive type (aspie or not) than someone who will step into their world and share the obsession even for a time. It consumes their mind so much that doing other normal stuff like eat tea or converse about mundane shit is just a nuisance. But like you are trying to do with the dinner time, it does need boundaries round it. DH really needs to know that this is a rule, a fact, the same as 2x2=4 or my car is red. We do not have ipads at dinner time.

On empathy I agree with stubbornstains that he can learn this. He has got to want to though, possibly for reasons that benefit him, like, he gets to keep his wife!!!?? dp can empathise with lots of things, e.g. if someone is homeless, if someone is having a shit time at work, or if someone else has hurt me or upset me he is very protective, but if the problem is him, and I say 'what you said then really hurt my feelings' it is like I have just told him that he broke my leg on purpose and likes to torture animals as well. He actually uses the phrase 'don't make me the problem!!'

Stubbornstains I would LOVE to read that thread. I have my hunches about my dd2 and I see her struggling in far more subtle ways than say, dp's son. Others see her as prickly, argumentative, etc. But she's painfully sensitive and I watch her trying to navigate the world and it causes her real anxiety... I'm doing my best for her. And yes of course, the defensiveness is a huge issue...

There is also this time lag, delay thing with processing the issues I raise that is really common in our conflicts. I don't know if this is just him, or if it is an aspie thing, but for example:

I see a problem (not just with him but in any area), I have been clamouring about it for a week, he cannot even remotely understand why it is a problem, I become the problem because I am 'going on', then suddenly (beyond the point that I am exhausted with explaining and about to fall apart), I say one simple thing that connects, or some other evidence comes along to support my point, and he gets it. Like wholesale, from nothing to everything at once. And it is done and he changes. Boom. Remarkable.

There are things - things I thought were really important - that I raised more than six months ago that he stonewalled because he was so stressed he literally could not process them at that time, and I used to get very upset because I felt not heard, not understood, etc. Last month he decided to act on them. Seriously, months. But in his defense it's been long enough now that I know that even if it takes months, he does actually take it all in and do something about it.

So there are things that I've had to change about my expectations: 1) when raising a difficult issue, do not expect a reasoned response at that time, there has to be some processing time allowed. And I am a very 'right bloody now' person so this has been quite a journey for me. 2) Don't assume that not being able to process or engage with what you are saying straight away is the same as not caring about it or not hearing it. 3) explain clearly and explicitly that in order for you to feel heard and not ignored, he needs to acknowledge what you've said, so you know he understands the issue, and assure you that he will discuss it at some point when he's thought about it, even if he can't respond right now.

The other thing we have is that if I raise something and he just goes mega quiet or responds with an 'ok', he is thinking. I feel like he is ignoring but he is thinking. He thinks he can only tell me what he thinks about something when it is a finished product - a well rounded, well reasoned, constructed argument. I tell him I am also interested in the 'workings out'. These need to be part of the discussion. Otherwise I don't know that he is thinking about it and, as above, I feel ignored and not heard. So now I ask him literally please can you tell me your workings out?

Have you tried negotiating rules for the use of devices i.e. not at the dining table, DS can use them only at certain times, DS can't use them longer than x minutes.

Ultimately, you will have to accept that this is who he is and who he is may not be compatible for what you want and need from a marriage.

Raising a child is hard, raising a child while battling depression is harder, raising a child, whilst battling depression, with a combative and unsupportive partner is f**king soul destroying.

I wonder did you put him on the back foot straight away? I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't hear or wasn't paying attention to your earlier instruction.

Anyway, assuming he is generally a nice bloke and not awful, it sounds like there is some reason he feels like his toes are being trodden on more generally, or that he is in some way not valued/respected as the man.

Do you think a lot of your inexplicable arguments might boil down to this if you ignored the words?

(I'm not arguing in his favour or sympathizing with him, purely deciphering)

PS: My response if I find a "permissions clash" with mummy is to smooth it over in some way, find some way to keep a united front on it and/or offer mummy a decent exit strategy.

I'd consider coming to an argument about it in front of the kids a big error and massively undermining to her, I might even get cross if it was done to me tbh.

Genuine question: why are you with this guy? What do you get out of this relationship?