Doubting myself again - how many times did he rape me?

[snowflake02]

I'm sorry to be asking for help again. I'm having another wobble. I can understand how it was technically (still struggle with the word) rape the time i clearly said no, but what about when I didn't say an explicit no, but thought I had made it clear I wasn't interested? (He woke me up and I told him I was trying to sleep and removed his hands a couple of times but he just put them straight back and carried on). Or the time I felt so intimidated by his behaviour that I couldn't say anything at all?

I think it really is time that I admitted everything to myself and working out how many times it happened feels like an important place to start.

Sorry to be back with more questions, just seem to be struggling again. Believe it or not I am doing so much better than when I first posted.

Thank you for reading.

I haven't reported. Took me a while to acknowledge what had happened, plus he is my husband.

alphabook I seem to be struggling to apply this to myself. Why is it always easier to apply logic to someone else's situation?

Sorry you have been through all of this snowflake.
Just came on to say that when you said you were pushing his hands away I just felt so sad that you might think that your message "wasn't clear enough". He chose to ignore you.
I'm just thinking of my OH and if I was even a tiny bit "off" if OH made a move my OH would say "are you ok?" because that is normal, kind behaviour. If I pushed his hand away he would stop immediately.
As a younger chicken I do remember having to "fend men off" and the implication was that they can't help it. Well, they can but they choose not to. As I got older I thought "what normal man would even want to initiate sex with a woman who was even slightly reticent?". Some men (dangerous men) choose not to hear no, they also choose not to see no because they do not want to. They don't respect it. Normal men hear and see it straight away. Men aren't babies and they aren't stupid. When he did this he knew what he was doing.

This will probably sound stupid, but I am surprised that most men would be so respectful. Kind of sad i guess. Is that the norm? Or do most men try and push it? Finding it very confusing. I thought it was just what happened until the time I clearly and repeatedly said no and he didn't stop. Then I started to ask myself questions.

Snowflake, I hear you, and I believe you.

I was married for 14 years to a man who sulked if I said no, or wasn't interested in having sex at any given time. The sulking would come after trying it at night, then next morning, then "popping home for lunch" ... I am 100% sure he would never recognise his actions as rape but I am slowly having the scales fall from my eyes and realise what actually happened. One morning our dd came into the bedroom, maybe age 4? and I can remember lying facing her and she was saying "never mind mummy" and something like "it will be over in a minute" ( he was 'spooned' behind me).
If I never had to see him again it would be too soon; unfortunately contact is inevitable due to dc. I hate him. and think I need therapy

I think I meant to say, yes I am also bemused by the thought of a man not continuing if their partner doesn't want sex!

Bemused, that is exactly it. I'm sorry you feel the same.

It is definitely not the norm for most men to ignore their partner's lack of consent. There are, however, a significant number of men who do not respect their partners boundaries and that is not just in bed but throughout the relationship, in my experience.

I would say throughout my life, thinking of the long term relationships I've been in, 3 out of the 5 guys would have been absolutely horrified at the idea of having sex with me if I wasn't fully enthusiastic.

One of the other two really didn't give a shit whether or not I liked it, but would not physically carry on trying if I said no - he would just sulk instead or try to guilt me into it.

And the other one was a fuckwitted abusive dickhead through and through who raped me dozens of times. While I was crying. While I was saying "it hurts". While I was completely empty-faced gone-away-inside.

But, this does mean 40% of men don't give a shit, far from it! I ended up in those two abusive relationships because I had rock-bottom self-esteem and I didn't think I deserved any better. A childhood full of sexual abuse and of watching my dad openly express his contempt for my mum had warped my mind so that I really thought that men "just did that" and you had to put up with it. My mum even told me that.

If I had believed that I deserved better, I would have fucked those guys off the first time they transgressed. If I had been taught as a young girl growing up that "it's okay to say no and mean it" then I wouldn't have put up with it. Thankfully I was able to get away from the very abusive guy after about 8 months, but I put up with the sulker for 7 years!

Does any of this ring any bells for you Snowflake?

TongueBiter, the sulking is insidious, isn't it? Because it's designed to make you feel like YOU are in the wrong, for daring to say no.

It does ring some bells, yes. Definite sulking and making me feel guilty, like I was really hurting him if I wasn't interested, because I was asleep probably.

I don't remember ever being told it was ok to say 'no' when I was growing up. I think perhaps early experiences of people just taking what they wanted led me to believe that was how it worked. And when my husband started to guilt me into sex I didn't register what was happening, I just thought it was normal I suppose. That it was my duty to keep him happy. And of course because I thought it was normal I didn't realise where it was leading. I think that was the only time I have ever said a direct 'no' him. He wasn't violent or aggressive. He just said nothing at all and kept going. But I feel guilty for even considering using the 'r' word.

Oh god yes, and then he would play perfect dad to the dc just to highlight that he was ignoring me. He is a twat of the highest order; fortunately (?) only one dc now lets him affect their decisions occasionally.

Bless you snowflake.

Every time you didn't want it, was rape.

My horrible ex used to get high on cocaine and dress up in women's clothes, expecting sex. He knew I wasn't comfortable with the whole scenario, but I would skulk/hide in the bathroom making myself "look pretty for him" until he eventually felt silly and got changed. He did really hurt me once, and tried to have sex with me with blood all over my face. From where he'd just broken my nose. Me throwing up in fear is the only thing that made him stop.

Now I can laugh at him, he's miserable and alone, and I have an awesome partner, the actual love of my life.

I was given the same messages as you as a child, that sex was something that had to be endured, not enjoyed.

Not sure if you've been asked upthread, but do you have a decent BACP or UKCP counsellor to talk this over with? It'll help.

I'm sorry you have been through that.

I do have a great therapist that I have bee seeing for nearly 2 years but the money has run out for the time being so i can't see her as regularly as I would like. As you can see I still have lots of unanswered questions!