How do I get married?

[Orrla]

NC for this. Basically, DP and I got engaged 18 months ago. We have been living together for over a decade and have one toddler DC. Even before we got the ring resized, certain family members began to dictate what kind of wedding we should have.

We both come from the same faith background, both mothers would be quite religious, but DP and I are not. We have never attended Sunday services or anything that was outside of christening/ church weddings/ funerals. I would go as far as to say that we are pretty much atheist. For me, it’s gone further in that the very religion repulses me now because of recent church scandals.

Our preference would be to have a simple civil ceremony, with a nice meal afterwards. The mothers, however wanted a religious service. His mum was quite vocal about it to the point of blindsiding me in my own home to lecture me about religion, which I did NOT appreciate. As a result, my mum did a u-turn (not seeing the irony) annoyed that FMIL has a nerve to dictate to me what kind of wedding I should have. DM is now happy to go along with my preferences. DP on the other hand wants a church ceremony to appease his DM. He feels that ‘it will always be the elephant in the room that she will be terribly upset about for years to come. In a way, if either of us had any residual faith it would be so much easier to go with the flow, and it never would have been an issue.

I suspect there is a bit of FOG there with DP and FMIL. I don’t know too much about FOG, but I’ve seen her once or twice shed tears in order to (I feel) manipulate a situation to her preference, and certainly have seen her children go to great lengths to avoid upsetting her. Other than that, she is quite a nice woman, we got on very well for over a decade until this happened.

It would feel wrong for me to stand up in a church I hate, saying words I don’t believe in order to marry. But I’d do it if DP was religious and a religious ceremony was meaningful for him, but to do that to appease someone who is hugely unappreciative of how hard it would be for me to do is stomach churning to think of. To clarify, we are in our forties, and would be paying for this entirely ourselves.

So we are at a stalemate, DP and I. I need suggestions and advice.

Oh, wrt when we announced our pregnancy, she cried. And not with happiness. More when we told her that not only was it not accidental, but planned and required fertility treatment to get pregnant. We slunk out of the room afterwards feeling about 16
FFIL was taken aback by our news initally, but quickly rallied around a moment later, big hugs, congratulated us and shushed her. She rallied around the following morning, giving me a pregnancy book she had and I could see it was an olive branch.

Having read your last post - just run away to the register office and do it. You don't need any 'wedding' or guests or anything. If your primary aim is to sort out the legal side of life (very good idea), then why not go for that. You don't even have to tell them all you are married, if you don't want to. If they notice the rings (if you want rings, you don't have to have them) then confirm your marriage. Tell them you wanted a marriage, not a 'wedding'. End of.

If you are hankering after a 'wedding' (and nothing wrong with that) DP has to grow some balls first.

Troopers & New name, you got it in one! We are Irish and it is Catholicism!

No WAY does she know DP is atheist! She tends to blame the partners of her children for the things they do that she disapproves of. So its been hinted that I'm to blame for him not going to mass. Despite not meeting him until we were in our late twenties and he stopped going to mass at 15.

I'm sure it's bad enough that he wants to marry a heathen and had a child outside of wedlock, but to declare himself an atheist I think would cause WWIII.

I'm afraid he may have to declare himself an atheist in these circumstances, if your DMIL is going to be pushy about the wedding. It doesn't seem right or fair to expect you to take the 'blame' for this - in fact, it's positively cowardly, as is the idea that you should simply 'pretend' to be Catholic to keep the peace. Time for him to man up and stop letting you take the flak.

A 40something man cannot be this cowed by his family. He does need to pull himself together OP.

You tell them there will be a civil ceremony, and if they make any fuss you will do it privately.

It was only yesterday that we had the latest conversation about this, and I presented my feelings fully to him more or less what I said in the OP. So I do suppose I need to give him time to mull it over.

He did think that my DM was also of the same mind until I said that she had totally done a u-turn and is now suggesting nice civil service venues and humanist ceremonies to me. So now he knows the sole sticking point is his mother. To be fair to him, I do feel that he is equally frustrated but decades of going along with what his DM says for peace is hard to change overnight.

It's very tempting to just go and do the legal bit and say nothing to anybody afterwards that we are actually married. But then it feels like we are somehow ashamed or hiding it and I'm not. And while I don't want a big wedding, I want to proudly marry my partner, in a wedding dress, in front of my family and host a nice meal for them afterwards.

It's one thing to keep the peace, it's another to compromise your beliefs and your partners to keep your mother happy in your 40s! He should have learnt by now how to manage her disapproval, he's going to have to start now.

'I want to proudly marry my partner, in a wedding dress, in front of my family and host a nice meal for them afterwards.'

So tell DP this is what you want, neither of you want or believe in a church wedding so it would be making a mockery of your marriage to stand up and lie in front of everyone, and also a mockery of the marriages of those who genuinely believe. It think it's disrespectful to fake a faith in order to have a church wedding.

Book your wedding and a meal, invite everyone, and it's up to them to come or not. And make the point that if they come, then they come 100% in support, no snidey comments or bewailing.

I take an old fashioned view in that wedding plans are entirely down to the bride and her Father ('cos he's the poor devil paying for it all). If you're paying for your own wedding then you can do what you please. I think you need to turn into bridezilla, make it clear that it's YOUR day and you'll have what YOU want. the reasons why you want that are nobody's business but your own. Stamp your foot and say we're doing it my way. They might not like it, but they can't overrule the bride.

Sorry I have not read the thread. I know of somebody who got married in a civil ceremony and then a week later had a church blessing. Like I said, I have not read the thread so don't know how suitable this might be.

Who is he marrying - his Mum or you?

No, you misunderstand - I'm all for you marrying - but I'm laughing at his mum insisting on a church wedding for a couple who have lived together for years and have a child!

It's ridiculous, tell her so, and have the civil wedding you want!

You could try telling the minister/vicar/priest your views when you go for the pre-wedding interview. S/he'll refuse to marry you.

But seriously, he needs to make a stand on this. Getting married is about declaring in front of friends and family who comes first with you. If he needs to do that a bit in advance of the ceremony, so be it.

Delivery of news to his DM needs to be firm and gentle, kindly said but brooking no dissent.

DF needs to understand that the real elephant in the room will be you having to do a religious wedding to please his mother.

When I got married we just did what we wanted. No one else was even involved in the planning, I had a wedding planner and just did what I wanted and only what I thought my very private husband could handle. Every ridiculous suggestion got a blank stare and I just changed the subject.

Oh and book the ceremony right now yourself before you both tell anyone what's happening...then it's whoops, too late. Then stop discussing your wedding with her.

It's very hard when you have parental guilt issues.

I would have liked a church wedding, so would my Dad. DH, OTOH, is a Catholic atheist (yes honestly) and so didn't want a church wedding BUT if I insisted on church, it would have had to be a Catholic church and I wasn't up for that. So we got married in a registry office. Dad wasn't the happiest, it wasn't my ideal either BUT the important thing was that we did get married - and in the end it was lovely.

I think that parents should really back the fuck off on this stuff - I say my Dad wasn't the happiest but he certainly never put pressure on me or DH to change our minds - yes he would have preferred for us to get married in church but he wasn't about to throw his toys because we decided not to!

If you have a toddler, I'd have a think about what you want to do education wise.

I know several couples who were exactly like you "I DO NOT WANT A CHURCH WEDDING. I AM NOT RELIGIOUS". Shoot forward 4 years and they were all running round like headless hypocrites chickens trying to pretend to be religious to get their kids into the best local school.... a church school. Makes me utterly sick that someone felt so strongly they didn't want a church wedding but has no compunction about suddenly tipping up to church to get the child into the school.

If you think there is the remotest chance of this happening, you may want to rethink the church wedding.

If not, have you thought about compromising with a civil ceremony and a religious blessing?

Nothing to add to the advice upthread, just wanted to say you are not alone. Super-religious parents putting pressure on their offspring is not unusual. It's happened both to my Dniece and to a good friend.

Friend is agnostic, her (now) husband is Catholic. She was prepared to compromise as far as a service of blessing, but wasn't prepared to make promises to a god she didn't believe in. In laws said nothing short of a full nuptual mass would do. They got married in a registry office and his parents refused to attend (but his utterly lovely grandmother got one of his siblings to bring her along!)

DN is agnostic, her partner is RC. They were all set for a quick private ceremony in a registry office but his family had an enormous paddy. End result - they didn't get married (but went on honeymoon anyway! ) Now have two children "out of wedlock"... the horror! (Not really, btw, but my goodness it ruffled the inlaws' feathers). They are in Scotland, though, so a lot easier to get legal issues sorted out such as next of kin.

Makes me utterly sick that someone felt so strongly they didn't want a church wedding but has no compunction about suddenly tipping up to church to get the child into the school.
Why? It's not non-religious peoples fault that church run schools, that may well be the best local choice or even only option, are allowed to prioritise people of a certain faith over others in the selection process. It's completely fucked up - especially if the school is state funded! The hoops for parents/children that have seen set up are ridiculous and things must change. The problem is with the selection process, not parents wanting to get their DC into a good/local school.

but I digress .....

OP I'd be so tempted to elope. Regardless, what on earth is the point in planning your wedding for your in-laws or your own parents? can you see yourselves expecting to be so involved in decisions made by your own adult children about their own lives?

You can't please everyone so simply please yourselves.

Ah Catholic Mammies (or in my case the Nana) are Queens of FOG.

It is a gift passed down from generation to generation, along with the ability to make really good suet dumplings.

Here's the thing-you'd have to do a good 6 months of contrite church going anyway to get the priest to agree to marry you, these days. Or at least you do in UK. We did it (and are still attending at least every couple of weeks) because I want my
kids to go to v good local Catholic school (flame away).

My Nana pulled not one, but three, 'take to her bed' episodes over various details of our wedding.

My favourite was that my second cousin (21) who I've seen probably 20 times in my life sudden new husband ( who I'd never met) wasn't invited even though they eloped just 6 weeks before and we were paying about £100 a guest.

She decided I wasn't prepared to boot out one of my mates to accommodate him because I was jealous that 2nd cousin had done things 'properly ' and married at a young age/was planning babies ASAP.

I, on other hand, appeared to be viewers as a middle aged (30) harridan who'd wasted my 20s building a career and having 'more boyfriends thank anyone of us can remember'.

Don't give in. Tell your husband to get a grip of the Catholic Mammy and tell her that if she doesn't behave, there'll be no wedding at all and therefore more grandkids born out of wedlock.

Yeh "wedlock" Rowanhart - that word says it all doesn't it!

Bring back the joy

RosyAuroch priest aint that fussy dammit. He is happy to marry us. I was secretly hoping that by going in and telling him how much I hate what the RCC got up to he would get outraged and throw my heathen arse out of his office. But no such luck. He's very open minded and welcoming of non-conformers.

SensationalGirl I love the idea of the blank stare! I'm adding it to my arsenal

Thumbwich lol at Catholic Atheist! Its my DP also to a tee.

CheersMedea The school is already sorted. I've to hang my head in shame and say that we did baptise the baby so its an automatic enrolment from the baptismal register into the local school, and right through to the best post primary school in the area too. We did it before my faith finally kicked the bucket. But if we hopefully have another child, I wont be baptising again.

Rowanhart I'm laughing at your nan. I'd like to say that she wouldnt take to her bed, but then she's never been tested like this before. So you never know.

I'll just have to have more out of wedlock babies so, eh?

Your in your forties and your paying for it all - its your choice and it will all be forgotten about in no time anyway!

Oh lord, sorry to hear that Orrla. I got married in a church as DH really wanted it (he was brought up a regular church goer and still goes sometimes i.e. Xmas). Our minister was a very stern woman who really put me through my paces as to my "spiritual beliefs". She needed to hear that my beliefs didn't include anything antithetical to the kirk...having said that, she was a passive aggressive micro-managing pita, who obviously took out her frustration at never having had her own wedding to organise by enjoying foisting petty conditions on every bride who came her way and making snide remarks to all the women at the wedding