DP and I are talking about splitting.

[MollyDixture]

And it's all completely rational and measured and calm and drama free.

I just feel sad and confused .

Together 14 years. 2 DC. We don't live near family and friends are few and far between so we've probably become too co-dependent over the years.

We tried an open relationship a few years ago but ultimately jealousy became too much of a problem.

We love each other. No-one gets me like he does. But the daily grind and lack of any sort of social life or chance to have a break from the kids has worn us down (me especially).

I don't look at him and think 'phwoar'. I have to make an effort to have sex. When we do it's genuinely good but I just don't fancy him like I used to. He does still really fancy me which makes me feel cruel

A trial separation sounds tempting if even to give us some space to actually miss each other (or not if the case may be) but it will be upsetting to the DCs. I hate the thought of putting them through any pain or stress. I never thought we'd ever split up.

We get on great. We're affectionate and tactile. We have loads of the same interests. Make each other laugh. There are issues though. Big ones.

I guess I feel a bit trapped and like life is passing me by. I genuinely don't know if a split would lift a fire under my arse to start a new life or of it would send me spiralling into an even more isolated and lonely existence.

In the absence of a huge wrongdoing (affair etc) how do you know what the right thing to do is?

I'm rambling. This sucks.

What are the big issues?

Nothing you've described sounds terminal, but there's obviously more.

Nothing on it's own seems terminal...but combined, well I can see your point.

Have you considered counselling? Finding a babysitter to go for a few nights out? Moving to a new area, closer tofamily?

When you tried an open relationship was that not effectively one (or both) of you having an affair? I think for you to have got to the stage where you were even entertaining that kind of idea as a solution, there must have been some serious cracks in the relationship. Who instigated the idea? Who got the most out of it? Who was jealous?

Ah Cog I don't want to get bogged down in a discussion about open relationships. I've seen how those threads go on MN. It's not the crux/cause of our problems anyway.

Suffice to say that it was something we thought about and discussed at length before doing it. It was something instigated by me but that both of us felt the same about. I still completely agree with the logic behind it. I have always struggled with the concept of monogamy. I don't believe it's the only framework within which a happy and fulfilling relationship can exist. I don't expect people to agree with me but also hope people can be open minded enough not to automatically dismiss it as a desperate attempt to save an already dead relationship.

The issues are co-dependence, trust, intimacy and resentment. They're all tangled up with each other, a big ugly relationship rat king. In that respect, I feel like space would be beneficial.

I feel like it's very difficult for us to have perspective as the only time we have to talk is when the kids are in bed and we're both knackered etc. Babysitters are non existent. I'm not comfortable with using strangers.

Moving nearer family is an option we've discounted for numerous reasons. DP has a great job here. We like it where we live.

Sorry if it all sounds garbled. Welcome to inside my head!

This might sound nuts - but have you considered living separately, whilst still being a couple? That would give you a break from the 'grind' and maybe make you appreciate each other a bit more?

Besides that idea, have you considered counselling?

It's something I have often dreamt of Pootles .

I used to envy Helena Bonham Carter and Tim Burton with their two adjacent houses but even they couldn't make it work. I think they broke up recently.

The babysitter thing - isn't there anyone you could use that the children already know? We used one of the girls from ds's nursery that was keen a earn a few quid.

Counselling is an option but again childcare makes it difficult/impossible.

Plus I am, by my own admission, probably the worst candidate for counselling. I have anxiety and have a tendency to get defensive and silent and sometimes panicky when I feel cornered or confronted.

Since everything came out in a big talk last week we have been communicating better than ever before. We are respectful and open with each other. All the cards are on the table. We just don't know what to do with them now .

This is a baffling situation, and is obviously causing you a lot of distress.

I think it's a real shame that you won't consider counselling. I think professional support would be very beneficial.

They did true - but worth a shot, no? You'll have to buy separate houses if you split up, so why not try it at least?

Your anxiety sounds like it is hampering some of the things that might improve life, whether or not you stay together, eg the babysitting, not going to counselling, not getting a break from the kids. I would make getting help with that the number one priority. It sounds like context is responsible for quite a few of the relationship issues.

I hope this doesn't sound flippant, but I genuinely think things might improve if you addressed the childcare / babysitting issue.

You don't say how old your DC are, but leaving them for a few hours, regularly, with a carefully chosen, experienced and vetted sitter wouldn't case them any real trauma - although they may need to adapt if you've not done it before.

Parents separating will definitely have more of an impact - but this is NOT saying that you shouldn't split if that's really he right thing for you.

I have to agree that it sounds as if the anxiety is contributing to making you feel trapped.

I'm sure you would be able to find good babysitters around you. And it sounds like you could do with going out and making friends as a couple.

Getting defensive and silent when discussing things doesn't mean you shouldn't go for counselling anyway. If you have the self-awareness to know you might react like that and your husband knows, then you can work around it.

I also wonder if some therapy for you alone to tackle the anxiety might help too.

If you're going to 'lift your arse into a new life' why not do that with your husband in the first instance, and then if you really can't make work considering doing the same alone.

Btw are you a SAHM or do you work?

If you don't subscribe to monogamy why did you cite an affair as an example of a 'huge wrongdoing'? Seems inconsistent.

My husband and I live apart during the week due to his work. Things were very difficult between us before that, just mundane life/financial/young baby type stuff. We now get the chance to miss each other and really enjoy our limited time together now. You could possibly live apart but continue the relationship? Could you do things separately in the evenings? join a club or go to the gym/sit in the sauna? Just to get some time away and a break?

Never having time out of the home without DC won't have helped. Why not use paid childcare? You or he would no doubt have to do so if you separate anyway.

As someone who has been married twice before (and now remarried for the third time) I don't think you should be so hasty to end a relationship where he "gets you" like nobody else does. That doesn't sound like the end of things to me especially as you say you love each other. I knew my relationships were over when the very act of them lying next to me in bed and breathing made me want to jump out of the window. If you're not at that stage then there is always hope.

That's not to say you should stay in a marriage that is making you unhappy, for gods sake life is too short. But 14 years is a very long time to throw away when it might be salvageable.

Reading between the lines it sounds like you're feeling trapped because you get no personal space and life has become stuck in a bit of a rut. Is there anything you could do to change that? Move, change or get a different job, enrol at uni, do a course, go travelling for a week or two getting your dh to look after the dc.

It's very difficult having no family help whatsoever, we are in the same boat and it does make you feel very claustrophobic and at times more like roommates than a married couple. But children aren't children forever and before you know it they won't be so demanding - then you begin to feel more like a human being again.

Having been in a few relationships I think it's easy to think back to the early lusty days where sex was as necessary as air to breathe but I think all experts agree that feeling doesn't last forever, it's a biological need to pull two people together and once you're committed that part does tend to wane. It's unrealistic to crave that kind of passion throughout the whole of a marriage.

It's clear you need something to change but I'd be cautious of ending your marriage until you are absolutely sure it can't be saved.

Cog - I think an affair comes with deceit, which the OP did not say she was ok with. She said she doesn't "believe [monogamy is] the only framework within which a happy and fulfilling relationship can exist", which is not the same as saying affairs are not wrong, so I don't see the inconsistency myself.

OP I think I would be careful what you wish for. Your issues sound pretty normal to me and I think you should focus on seeing this as a "bad patch" rather than the end. It is true that you don't know what you've got until you lose it. You would be instigating this split, your dp would likely start another relationship making it too late for you to go back. "Space" is a pretty dangerous thing. It marks the start of separation really and there may be no going back. I can't exactly see what you believe you're missing out on. How old are the dc?

I don't think you should call time on your marriage. Totally agree with Bluepants that this is probably a bad patch. A huge majority of people feel trapped and uninspired by their marriages at times.

Very unpopular thing to say on here but:

People really should think of staying together for the kids as long as there is no abuse, terrible rows, terrible unhappiness - I really don't go along with the Mumsnet wisdom 'you don't have to stay in a relationship you are not completely happy with'. The amount of times posters say 'And why are you with this man/what's holding you together?' and I want to scream 'The kids you brought into this world!'.

What you describe is a fairly typical marriage and trust me you can make improvements and come back from this. I've done it. I think it's silly to think you will look at your husband and think 'phwoarr' given the day to day drudgery and stress you are feeling.

It seems a great shame to end what appears to be, from what you've said, a relationship where you actually have a solid base, but one that life and the stresses of having a young family have got somewhat in the way of.

I think you need to address the issue of quality time together. You say that you wouldn't want strangers to babysit, yet if you split up that is probably precisely what will end up happening as you both try to juggle yet more commitments but from different households. Could you ask around work colleagues that may have older teenagers or DC at uni to see if any could offer babysitting time.

Are there other ways that you could spend time together doing something that you'd both enjoy, and that would enable you to stop seeing each other as 'mum and dad' but as 'lover' (sorry that sounds daft but you know what I mean) again? Maybe a gym or health centre with a creche, or something like that so you could swim/sauna etc?

You mention that family live away from you. Would it be possible to let the DC go there for overnight stays some weekends? That would give you chance to enjoy time together in the way that you used to before DC arrived.

As a last ditch, I'd say give counselling a go before splitting. Maybe on your own before having some joint counselling. Counselling is not about "confronting" you but rather about enabling you to explore what you have/feel/think and seeing how you can move it to a better place.

I think in all honesty things don't sound bad. I think there are external things you aren't content with but are blaming them on your marriage.

Lack of socialising - marriage is not the cause

Lack of friends - marriage is not the cause.

It sounds like you both aren't fulfilled by your life as the way it is but you can take steps to sort that.

It doesn't matter who you be with next IMO all relationships slip and slide a little once children are on the scene. Then things settle down into a routine. Such is life.

I think the cause here is yous are on your own a lot without a community of family and friends around you. Life can be pretty boring in that case. Best not to mistake boredom for misery though.

Good luck with it all.

Yyy to what bloody gorgeous said

It sounds like you have problems in the other areas of your life but are blaming them on your relationship. Socialising and meeting other people would be a great deal harder if you didn't have a partner who could watch the kids. I think you should seriously think about how any of your problems would be improved by separating, I just don't see it.

You need something that is yours, your space, your interests, your friends and only you can figure out what would be the right thing for you (gym, allotment, book group etc).