Was I wrong to storm off from angry DH?

[Onsera3]

Set out on Sun am family outing. Chatting with DS 2yo in back of car. DH says how he will miss taking DS to see MIL throughout week/weekend if we emigrate to my home country- as we have been making plans to do. Starts asking me for solutions to raft of problems that might arise in 10 yrs if we do. I try to suggest things but he points out more problems and I say can't and don't want to waste energy trying to solve problems that may never arise, esp at that very moment. (I have morning sickness and been to hosp 3 times this week with bleeding). DS has dozed off now from no interaction during drive and I wake him and ask DH again to drop it. Keeps going, I try vainly to offer solutions he points out more probs I say don't want to discuss now he gets annoyed and shouts 'It's my f-ing life I should be able to discuss it!'

I hold finger up to his lips in 'shhh' gesture and say firmly 'stop' but he gets more agitated. So I say I'm taking DS and making way home. He tries to stop me and says DS is upset but I say I won't be sworn and shouted out in front of DS and walk off.

He catches up to us as we make way to train and says stop you can't manage trying to takes bags off me. But is still grumpy and annoyed and saying I'm upsetting DS rather than apologising. I say leave us you are making fuss and security is everywhere here and you will get removed. He walks off.

I text him and said I won't be spoken to like that in front of DS and he picked an inappropriate time to force that conversation. Said didn't want to see him for rest off the day.

He is usually model DH- helps a lot around house though he works and I am SAHM, very hands on dad, usually quite selfless.

But he is terrible in arguments. He becomes very irrational. He said his parents never argued and he never argued with sibling. His mum corroborates this. I also suspect he may have Aspergers - his father definitely appears to.

I worry I may have overreacted? My father was hands on dad but had drinking problem so could sometimes be abusive. My last live-in boyfriend was abusive. So I am very sensitive and have zero tolerance to being shouted at aggressively. I believe you can have healthy arguments without either.

Was I being unreasonable?

Maybe he was musing about grandparent visits because he wishes we were going there on Sundays instead of hanging out just the three of us. We did used to go there Sunday lunch.

Well, if he's always been that close to his mum it's only natural that moving away is going to feel weird. I'm sure people would understand if you were the one saying I've always had a really close relationship with my mum and we've been part of each other's lives and now I'm relocating abroad and I'm feeling awful already because I know I'm going to miss her...

It's the same thing.

If he is on board with the moving, then it's about reminding him that this is what he wants and that he can visit, they can visit, there's skype and email and fb and everything that makes people feel a lot closer than they did years ago when moving overseas.

You need to sit down and talk about it all. I just don't know how you're going to manage it if he starts wailing at mere whiff of a lack of a hive mind.

Sorry, that last bit was spiteful. I let my own issues out there. That's not your problem and I shouldn't have been mean about him.

Ha ha I understand. His parents are actually really understanding about the idea of us moving because they too are immigrants here. They have no extended family here which is why he feels a bit guilty to leave him. His brother has lived abroad for a while but DH seems to feel he has more responsibility to stay.

His parents would be able to visit BIL en route to my country as we usually do.

(Interestingly, BIL has been to marriage counselling and DH was so horrified to hear this.)

Unfortunately, my family are no longer going to be able to stay with us because there is literally no room for someone to open a suitcase in our place.

Can you talk to his mum so that she can chat with him as well? If his mum says that she supports it then that removes his feeling of responsibility.

If he's feeling anxious, then he needs to talk about it. He just needs to be able to talk constructively.

My husband really wants us to move to his home country. I am very VERY anxious about it all, but fortunately it's something that is a few years away yet. I can quite understand how your husband may be feeling.

Shouting isn't going to solve this, swearing is childish and quite aggressive but putting your finger to his lips and storming off to get a train are also very unhelpful. You both need to be able to talk. If you can't, then you're going to have a lifetime of this and it's no good.

HowCanIMiss I feel like he is really struggling with his emotions.

He takes any criticism of a behaviour as a big personal attack.

I do wonder if he has Aspergers sometimes his behaviour can be so antisocial. If I greet a mum I know from a baby group in the weekend with her respective DH and DS at the mall etc he will try to keep walking as hates chit chat. He wouldn't take food that needed refrigeration to work for ages because he doesn't want to see his colleagues on his break.

He is oversensitive to touch and light. Plus he has OCD which he feels has improved since DS came but is still affects his behaviour quite often.

He also can't read my facial expressions or tone of voice - which makes the arguments even worse as he often accuses me of being 'so furious' when I am barely annoyed.

My two both have autism. While I don't do internet diagnosis, well, I don't do any diagnosis to be more accurate but avoid internet diagnosis like the plague if you have read a lot about asd and feel that he displays signs, it may be worth seeing whether he would consent to an assessment.

Have you read about the triad of impairments?

but also, what do you think you could change about the way you communicate that could also improve things?

He is having cold feet about the proposed move abroad.

He tried to be honest and discuss it but you refused and seem dismissive of his concerns. He is allowed to have doubts and need reassurance. We all do at times and moving abroad and well away from family is a very big issue.

Are you certain he actually wants to go at all, and that he is not simply trying to humour you and keep the peace? I'm not wishing to be unkind by saying that, but it still may be a possibility so you should consider it.

True that he should not have sworn at you in front of your son, but you behaved quite antagonistically too. I can't guarantee that I wouldn't have done similar in that situation.

I do hope you manage to work out a suitable way forward.

I think maybe if my tone of voice was more pleasant when we argue. I don't get nasty or say untrue things but he says he feels belittled so it sounds like I am talking down to him.

I think anyone has the capacity to shout and swear during the course of an argument. No it's not ideal esp swearing, but given he wanted to discuss something and you cut him off at every turn I can see why he reached the point of shouting, and if someone put their finger to my lips I would have slapped them.

Moving abroad for a bigger house isn't a valid reason for moving IMO, I can see why you would want to go back, but for the other party we're talking a huge cultural change, possibly a language change, his children having a different first language to him, and his children's relationship with their grandparents, i.e. his parents, will be different as a result. Skype simply isn't a substitute for face-to-face communication, and while I understand that that is the relationship your children currently have with your parents, at the moment he has a close relationship with his own parents, your ds will have that relationship and you want to take that away by moving not only a distance, but entire countries away.

If a house is the issue, why not look to move to a different part of the UK instead? Where you at least will still be in regular contact with family?

There was a recent post on here from an op who didn't want to leave her family to move abroad with her dh, and he had refused to engage with her on the issue. People told her to refuse to go and to even reconsider her marriage.

If both of you aren't on board with a move abroad then IMO it's not a workable solution.

I think he definitely did want to go. He was so enthusiastic in his research and did all his paperwork. He hated his boss at the time. He since changed to a new workplace so things are more tolerable now.

He says he does still want to move there but he wants to change his profession and he doesn't see how he can do that if we move. He thinks he can pull it off here by doing some work with his dad as a transition. Nothing seems to actually happen on this front though.

That is really interesting about triad of impairments thank you.

He does really struggle with wearing appropriate clothing and is also very clumsy.
He likes the idea of friends and people enjoy his company but he really struggles to initiate friendship and often hurts friends with his apparent lack of care in maintaining friendship.

There is no way I could get him to go for an assessment though.

I have often thought to myself we need counselling while we are arguing but in daily life we are very happy with each other. He just wouldn't agree to it either.

Are there any self help relationship courses you can do at home?

There are lots, but they do require both of you to be fully on board.

I think he could be persuaded to do it at home. He has read relationship books I have in the house before and talks about points in those sometimes.

We had to go on a relationships course to get married and he didn't hate that because it was done privately btw us with the course leaders providing sheets and instructions for activities etc.

Obsera3, my DH has AS.
He does NOT cope with ANY argument it even discussions on any subjects (discussions are immediately treated as an argument). He diesntbganw arguments week because arguments mean conflict and high emotions and he doesn't know how to deal with emotions.

My answer to his questions would have been 'I don't know. It's a good question and well have to think about that.'
I would have never touched him knowing he us sensitive to touch!
And I would have let him go on about how unfair and difficult it is, let him come out with all the issues and address them later on maybe in writting rather than as a discussion.

What I would do though, is to review seriously if that move is a wise idea. It seems that, even though he was really up to it, he us starting to realise that it's not as easy, what sort if problems there could be (wondering about what would happen to a 3rd child doesn't surprise me with AS. My DH has the tendency to plan so far ahead and see so many of the possible problems that it stops him from doing anything!).
I'm also getting the feeling you are planning the move as 'the least problematic' solution. If you want to emigrate, it HAS to be because it's the best thing you will ever do! Otherwise itself be a recipient fir disaster as moving like this is already a very stressful experience, even if it's back to your home country (as you have said, it has changes and you and your expectations have changed too).

Finally, I don't believe that your DH was abusive. He reacted very strongly to a situation where he felt he was cornered and wasn't allowed to exoress his worries. It might not have been the best time for him to do so. Not did he approach it the right way. He did it as someone becoming over anxious and panicked at the whole idea if moving.
You weren't wrong to want to discuss it later either but probably didn't chose the best way to put your message across either.

Have a chat quietly. Write your concerns to each other (the best way IMO if your DH has AS or is struggling with 'arguments') and have a good look at whether the move us actually a good idea.

Another thing you might want to think about is the fact that people with AS often struggle with change.
IF you DH is on the spectrum, you need to realise that he will find the move a very stressful thing to do, even if he is 100% on board with the idea.
And that means lots of arguments coming your way, arguments he doesn't well with...

TheFriar the first thing he did when I told him I was pregnant (big shock as we had IVF for DS) was go and draw up a revised monthly financial plan! So I see maybe he is burdening himself with things that may or may not ever happen.

You are right about the touch- he shudders and squeals if I give him an unexpected kiss on the cheek.

He is a lot better at discussing things in writing. This is evident when we are text messaging. He will sometimes send a text explaining the emotion behind the behaviour if he knows he has upset me.

I think we need to do some pros and cons talks regarding the move. We have been losing our evening talk time because I have been so shattered I have been falling asleep so early.

Are you absolutely sure the reaction to disagreements is not, in part, down to you not remaining clam, but actually stonewalling him or even gaslighting?

Just sounds like you are the one in control of how discussions go and find it much easier. You might not mean to but you could well actually be not as calm as you think you are being and actually cutting off effective communication.

He does struggle a lot with change and he uses routines a great deal to keep himself calm. Eg he can't bathe DS happily but gets very flustered if the towel, nappy, cream and pyjamas aren't in the right place on the bed with the duvet folded just so. His says it throws the whole bedtime routine into chaos of it's not so. He becomes very grumpy and sweats when things like that happen but I have learnt to live with that.

He is also a horrible grump on holidays.

Yep, very similar reactions than DH. Even down to the hols (because the routines are thrown out the window).

Norest my DH goes silent in these conditions and look like a rabbit caught in the headlights of a car. Or he leaves the room, refuses to answer.
His reaction has felt to me like he was stonewalling me. He wasn't. He rely doesn't know how to answer for the best.
I know other people with AS who get very angry, shouts, swears. Again not because they are twats or abusive, even though it can feel like this, but because they are in anxiety overdrive.

I'm at the idea that you are stonewalling someone when you don't want to engage with them because they are too angry or it's not the right place and time.

And yes from the outside, I'm the one in control of communication with DH.
Not because I want to (you have no idea how much I'd love him to be in charge of the conversation some time to time!) but because he can't do the communication bit.
And it's very hard work but 'be in charge' whilst leaving him the opportunity to express his pov and make his own choices.

Telling someone to shut up, physically stopping them from speaking and not letting anyone except oneself have their say are all examples of abusive behaviour op, and you're worried about him displaying such behaviour to you?