Can emotional abusers ever change?

[yougotafriend]

Background - left an EA marriage a couple of months ago after 23 years together.

Im OK and realising how permanaently on edge I was as I'm relaxed in my new home. I have good days and not so good days, more about being uncertain of the future though than regretting leaving the past behind me.

I came home yesterday to a 3 page letter from H about how he believes we still a future together (we don't) and how he is going for counselling so he can change and win bully me back (he won't).

So it got me to thinking if anyone out there has turned an EA relationship around? and if so how does the "victim" learn to trust that the abuser won't revert to type?

It is way too soon for me to consider another relationship but I do think my perception of the dynamics is so messed up, I have no idea how a healthy relationship works. How do I learn to trust that someone else wouldn't try to control me in the same way?

yw :) are you the one issuing the divorce papers or is he? (when you say you'll wait for the papers)

I'm not sure he has grounds for divorce, unless me leaving can be classed as unreasonable behaviour. He won't file for divorce, it's all bluster to try and get a reaction.

We own a house (he lives there with DCs 16 & 18) he can't afford to buy me out but if we're getting divorced I'll want my equity and he'll have to sell.

Personally I think there is a difference between an 'abuser' and someone who behaves in an abusive way, due to underlying issues and without an intent to do harm (ea not violence). Though neither can be tolerated. I left due to the latter. Dh was willing to address the underlying issues and I went back when I felt confident that change wad happening. He has changed, although we both have to work to keep those issues from resurfacing.

ah, right. It was your children's decision to stay?

They chose the house! Only home they've ever known, both have admitted if he'd left they'd have stayed with me! I'm close and see them each about twice a week, it's working for now.

I had said I wouldn't force a sale until Sept 16 when DS2 goes to uni.

H is 55 and I believe his behaviour is too deeply ingrained for him to change.

Personally I think there is a difference between an 'abuser' and someone who behaves in an abusive way

Umm, I don't want to criticise you, but that sounds very much like a distinction without a difference to me. Someone who 'acts in an abusive way' IS an abuser.

I can understand that you don't want to 'label' your DP now that you have reunited, and I'm glad to hear you have worked on his issues.

No probably not and definitely not with the same person. Those patterns are ingrained. You'd have a couple of months and be back to square one.

Shred that later and ignore. If he keeps pushing then tell him you have moved on, rinse, repeat.

You are in the right place because you 'feel' so much better. Pay attention to how you 'feel'. It tells you when you're heading in the right direction.

I was going to symbollically burn the letter then I decided it didn't deserve that muc effort, so I tore it up & threw it out!!

First of all, OP, you've done massively well to leave such a long-term relationship, and to weather this trial of your courage with such vim! You clearly have guts and determination, and I take my hat off to you

I think your DH's behaviour here is manipulative - but you've already seen through that. It's good that he's getting counselling, and I am sure he could change, but not with you. If you got back together, things would slip back into the same old, same old. Why would you lose everything you have fought so hard to gain? But you already know this.

I'm just guessing here, so forgive me if I'm wrong but I suspect that what might be happening is that you've started to look ahead, to entertain the prospect of meeting someone new - and you're terrified. Please listen to me when I say: this is COMPLETELY NORMAL! Dating when you've been in a longterm relationship is the scariest prospect, and it can feel easier to revert back to what you know rather than to start the process of kissing frogs!!

Can I ask whether you've gone for counselling yourself? It might really help you to work through these issues. I think it's fine to accept that you will likely have some trust issues at the start of a new relationship. But it's also likely that your partner will have too. When you meet people later in life, it is very different. Everyone has baggage from previous relationships! Don't assume yours will be any bigger than your future partner's. Coming to a new relationship with this experience sometimes means it takes longer to build trust on both sides, which is probably a good thing in your case.

I'm not sure you need counselling OP. You seem to have a pretty good handle not only on the behaviour/motivations of your ex but a very realistic perspective of your own reactions. I'm not saying that means you'll never make a mistake in the future but I'd have thought the level of understanding you have got and the type of assertiveness you're displaying make it increasingly unlikely.

You're making decisions now based on putting yourself #1 and not compromising. Apply that same principle to any future relationships, quickly weed out anyone who doesn't add value to your life, and you won't go far wrong.

I'm not sure I need counselling now, but I won't rule it out for the future should I find problems in any new relationship.

The future does scare me, both the thought of being alone and the thought of meeting someone new. So I'm trying to focus very much on the present and not look too far ahead for the time being

I think, if you had problems with future relationships, you'd probably get shot rather than agonise too much over whether you were doing the right thing. I'm only a few years younger than you and the philosophy of 'life's too short to waste a second of it on an arsehole' gets more meaningful with every passing day. And I used to be such a mug so tolerant... :)

Being alone doesn't necessarily mean being lonely. One of the features of an EA marriage - and I'm just guessing now so do correct me if I'm wrong - is that the manipulator takes up a disproportionate amount of your mental and physical attention. Can mean that all kinds of other social activities get pushed to one side. Once you shake free of the control, you'd be amazed just how un-lonely you really are.

Thanks Cog future relationships are not even on my radar at the moment, but I certainly will be less tolerant. My only (very minor) concern is that I am so used to editing my conversation and behaviour to avoid conflict that I might be the one causing the problems by being permanently pre-empting a negative response (even if a do meet a "normal" guy).

I am not lonely at all - rather than him occupying all my time before (in recent years) I avoided him so much that I was largely on my own anyway. I used to disappear upstairs for hours at a time on the pretext of washing my hair or other personal grooming, I was out a lot as I was "obsessed" with the gym. It now transpires that without the need to avoid anyone, I'm a bit of a scruff who can happily sit on my arse for hours at a time!!!

" I might be the one causing the problems by being permanently pre-empting a negative response (even if a do meet a "normal" guy)."

Old habits die hard... true enough... but I think you're seriously underestimating yourself. You may have been living independently before but I think you'll find genuine independence a completely different kettle of fish and you will not want to entertain someone who spoils your scruffy arse-sitting fun.

I'll tell you a story from the Cog Archives....

A few months post-split I treated myself to a 'Shirley Valentine' type holiday. It was going to be just me, a big pile of books, a few bottles of wine and a beach towel. A real get away from it all. A few days into the holiday I was asked to dinner by a man at the same resort. Why not?

Turned out he was also freshly separated/divorced and spent the whole of the first course telling me his tale of woe.... the wife hated him, the kids hated him, the dog hated him.... 'Old Cog' would have smiled sympathetically & wanted to help the poor man deal with his pain. 'New Cog' snapped and said 'I'm not surprised they all hate you because you're fucking boring....'

Never looked back... :)

Cog that made me roar....good for you.

I've never lived independently before (straight from parental home to marital home) so I guess I have to allow myself time to adjust - it has only been just over 2 months after all.

I warn you now that independence.... proper, no holds barred, no compromising with anyone about what to eat/say/do/watch on TV/etc independence.... is very seductive!!! I've had various boyfriends since Mr Bitter Dinner Date (who still wanted to see me the next day btw... withering scorn obviously being a big turn-on) and there always comes that point where we want different things, compromise is in the air and I have to tell him that sadly, our time is up.. :)

You'll adjust.

He's replied straight away saying it's time to move to the next stage (we didn't have plans to divorce right away)

NOW he is bullying you. you should have ignored his text and his letter and not replied.

never mind, no harm done.

but don't rise to his shit again. how DARE he chase you up on a letter he wrote that was full of shit?

You don't have to read a damned thing you don't want to, you don't have to be polite either.

let me tell you that whoever instilled this ridiculous sense of fear of being perceived to be doing the wrong thing by not doing what others expected of you actually placed you in this abusive relationship in the first place.

Ignore him entirely, he has nothing constructive and doesn't need you to jump to his command any more.

it's a piss poor example to be setting to your children. Be strong, be happy and keep him out of your life as much as possible.

I won't be replying to any more texts that's for certain but as DS2 is coming over tonight I didn't want him to be put in the position of "ask your mum if she got my letter".

whoever instilled this ridiculous sense of fear of being perceived to be doing the wrong thing by not doing what others expected of you actually placed you in this abusive relationship in the first place.

I'm not afraid of doing the wrong thing, I do/say the wrong thing/behave in an unexpected way often...shit happens.... but I am not the sort of person to deliberately do or say something that I know will cause upset to someone else, unless it it is something that is a fundamental matter of principle..... I have never considered this a character flaw

It's not a character flaw. Another person would delight in your kind nature, not exploit it or use it against you. The fault always lies with the one dishing out the abuse.

Exactly! He's hassling you because he wants you to do what he's telling you to.

If ds gets asked about the letter, you don't have to say anything. The answer to your ds is that you'll not allow him to be put in the middle of this and that you'll decide what and how to communicate with his father.

Abusers target us for our qualities, but then grow to the is for them. They seek to destroy us by berating us for being the wonderful people we are. We're not doing anything wrong but showing them how substandard they are naturally.

Sorry grow to hate us for them

Ds2 hasn't mentioned anything but I had to go and collect him as his dad has been drinking

My ex-EA husband has changed but it's not a bed of roses. I left and he did a lot of work on changing. He's not perfect. We still have struggles. Sometimes I think it would have been easier not to go back. I wouldn't advise anyone to go back as I do think the majority don't change and don't want to change. I do believe my H wants to change but finds it difficult. I know some people will think I'm deluded but I think that we will make it. Currently 1 year on from reuniting. But it isn't easy

silly thanks, it's interesting that some people really do want to change and continue to try even tho it's difficult. Good luck.

Over the years my H swung between taking responsibility and promising to change and taking the "this is me, accept it is fuck off" stand.... The promises were only ever lip service tho and I'll never get back aboard that particular emotional rollercoaster!