I'm scared. How best to start divorce proceedings against a very troubled man?

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

I need to make it official, it's causing problems for me to not do it.

But I'm scared of poking the hornets nest.

When you write the reasons... I'm worried. I don't want to lie and not say how bad it was, but if I write the real reasons I think he will flip and refuse to spite me.

How can I start divorce without it being seen as a declaration of war?

The sleep disorder could be undiagnosed narcolepsy.

What's going to work in your favour is that (if I read it right) between March and now he's made only one half-hearted attempt to resume contact. There must be people who have witnessed his various outbursts and behavioural problems. When DS had the meningitis scare, that will be on record. If he has been investigated for rape, there may be other evidence available. If he is homeless, that's another point in your favour. I'm sure a solicitor would be able to work through all of the story and make a case of it.

Abusive relationships can be very difficult to get out of. No-one with any compassion would blame you for not getting out earlier. Please see yourself as a courageous survivor of abuse rather than blaming yourself.

Totally agree about not blaming yourself. You were in an incredibly hard situation with being physically reliant on him and I know from my own experience that with an abusive man, you lose all sense of what's normal behaviour.

If it helps, I had an abusive ex, also from a different country. I could have divorced him for unreasonable behaviour, but he asked me to wait for two years and then he would consent. In the meantime, I got my solicitor to draw up a deed of separation - it meant it was harder for him to get me into debt etc.

After the two years, ex wouldn't give consent. I either had to wait a further three years to divorce him (after five years of separation, you don't need the other party's consent) or else divorce him on grounds of unreasonable behaviour. I divorced him just to get it over with, although given I had the deed of separation, it wouldn't have done much harm if I'd had to wait the full five years.

My solicitor knew the background and said it was fine to be fairly bland in my description of his unreasonable behaviour. Even mild examples were sufficient for the divorce, and there was no point in putting things down that he'd object to and decide to argue against.

My concerns about my ex's behaviour were documented elsewhere - what you put into the divorce petition doesn't really count as a significant piece of evidence one way or another. What helps a lot is when problems are documented by a third party - concerns by nursery/school/GP, and/or in your case, carers.

Thanks.

A friend found a good solicitor so I have to take the next step and talk to her. Just useful to know as much as I can beforehand too.

I know the carers wouldn't stand in court and testify, but probably would submit a sworn statement. Difficult split loyalties, I since changed all carers expect one as he made it difficult to relate to them sometimes, a wedge I guess... Hes a dangerous man for me. Should never have stretched their roles and loyalties like that. Was a factor in deciding I couldn't carry on propping him up like that, to let him fuck up ds.

He's charming, they didn't see the violence, just the destruction and neglect but he always played the little boy lost so they wouldn't want to be involved in taking away his son. But if a statement would be enough, I think they could be persuaded to do a bland ish statement...

I told friends at the time about him strangling me... Would that be counted as evidence of a sort?

I tried to get him help several times with psychologists, but I don't remember enough to contact them again.

This sounds like a really awful situation.
Have you spoken to WA recently just to see if they could help you, even though nothing is happening now? They might be able to help you or advise you if you are worried starting a divorce is going to reignite old behaviour or issues?

Also, regarding solicitors, go and see more than one. Even if the one recommended by your friend is good, you might find you glean bits of info from others.

I was very scared to go and see them initially too. If you need to sort something out for your son you will need to see one though.
I hope it goes well for you.

How could not writing down the full extent count against you in the future?

Well if I didn't disclose the abuse, then I disclosed it later to explain why I am concerned he's not safe for ds to be around, it could look bad.

It could look like I made it up to suit whatever I'm arguing for at the time. Like, it would seem incredible that I was really raped multiple times if I didn't think it was important enough to ask for a divorce on the basis of that, etc.

Whereas in reality I'm scared to admit that, because he certainly wouldn't think he raped me at any point, as he genuinely thinks all women are up for it and a wife should want to have sex at any time a husband has sex with her. So, me saying that it hurt and he was making me bleed he never 'heard' as a no :(

He would be outraged at the suggestion he was a rapist... And would go in all guns blazing to 'clear his name'.

On a side point, it's horrible and took me a long time to come to terms with this, but I believe he could have raped that woman, and not have even known he had until he was arrested. I don't really know what to do with that information. How to handle it. At all.

All this is why I was putting off divorcing, I don't want to be that person, thinking about those things. I have enough to deal with. My dad died this month.

The way I would look at it is that many of the 'minor' things, that he might accept, would be enough to give you a divorce. My solicitor told me they rarely don't grant a divorce, no matter how trivial things seem, as trivial sounding things can have a massive psychological impact - and it's about what you are prepared to live with.

The statement you make in a divorce as to 'unreasonable behaviour' in no way states you have to outline the very worst of the behaviour. Not least because if everyone did that then a lot of divorces would run a hell of a lot less smoothly.

People who know about the pattern of Domestic Violence understand that women are very often coerced or intimidated into keeping quiet against their better judgement. They may be unwilling to press charges, reluctant to leave.... they cover up out of fear. Organisations such as Rape Crisis, Womens Aid, and the Domestic Violence branch of the police have a lot of experience in the area and would not say to you that, because you didn't leave earlier, you are now lying or anything like that. It is not too late to report the abuse, in other words. He's a very dangerous man and, for the sake if you and your DS, it's important others know the full story

I know you're all going to jump on me for saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway because it's part of what I'm trying to untangle...

I feel so sorry for him. He didn't mean to do any of this. He didn't set out to be an abusive scary man. He didn't set out to be this person. And he hates being this person. He's deeply ashamed and troubled.

But he is this person. I know that. And I know it doesn't excuse what he's done. And I need to protect myself and ds from the potential of future hurt. Ds because, well, obviously! But me too because ds needs a functioning home and I am all he has now my dad has gone.

But it makes it hard to do things that will actively make him feel worse. Like take his son.

I wish I knew what was the right thing to do.

I wish I could try out a couple of routes to decide... But I cant can I?

if you are concerned that it would appear you are making different allegations in different circumstances, you could put on the divorce form something like;
" x and y and z happened, and there was a long history of behaviour of which I can give further details if it should become necessary".

Although it is true that the court will ask about the arrangements for your DS before granting a divorce, those arrangements do not need to be finalised provided that you are addressing the issue.

So for example you can obtain a divorce if you have invited ex to mediation about the child arrangements, or if you state that you intend to make an application to court failing agreement between yourself and ex. What the court does not want to see is a situation where the child's interests are not being looked at by anyone as the parents separate.

It's OK to feel sorry for someone that is damaged. However, be wary of believing this idea that he doesn't mean to be a violent rapist or that he is genuinely ashamed and troubled. Whatever he claims are his intentions has had the same opportunity as everyone else to make good choices and instead he's made bad ones that have harmed others in a particularly horrible way. No-one has twisted his arm up his back, he's done it voluntarily. If he was really remorseful, he would not repeat the behaviour but seek help or place himself where he can't harm others.

So sympathise by all means but don't let misplaced pity cause you to back-pedal

I felt the same way about my XDP - he was a totally crappy husband and not a great father when the kids were young, but he had an appalling upbringing and I'd been brought up by wartime parents to make do and mend, keep a stiff upper lip, not complain etc etc. So I put up with loads of stuff simply because he couldn't help it/didn't know any better.

Of course, really he did know better. He's not a stupid man, I just enabled him to carry on being selfish and manipulative. (See - it's all my fault!). Your DH 'hates being the way he is' but what has he done about it?

The right thing to do is to get away from him, and to sort out access for your DS so DS is safe from him. Divorce - pay - it;s just a bit of paper.

I understand your feelings. This is why the book "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft gets recommended on here so often. It's incredibly helpful as you disentangle things in your own mind.

Does your H go around treating bosses etc the same way as he treated you? If not, then at some level he is choosing to treat you this way.

I can see how my exH was playing out the dysfunction of his childhood when with me, and despite everything, I do feel a certain degree of compassion for him. But I'm not letting that carry on to the next generation. It stops here.

In addition to solicitors I think you really need to talk to someone who will understand all the different aspects of your situation and how you feel about it.

Have you tried WA and I think Rights of Women mentioned by someone else?

I only have experience of WA but have been told about Rights of Women. Just phoning them won't do any harm, in fact you might realise it won't be as complicated as you think and you will know what support is out there for you, as well as how to proceed, especially as you are worried the incidents might not be taken into account. There might be things you are entitled to or a process you might not have to go through (eg mediation) if there has been domestic violence. You need to check. Phone them. WA are very busy so you might need to keep trying but do it.

I can't do anything of that stuff though, it's utterly the wrong time for me to have to deal with this :(

I dad just died and I am not ok. But I also found out my parents disinherited me because of still being married to h, so I have to do it now. Tbh my mother would have been just looking for a reason, she's the reason I didn't realise dh abuse was wrong or I could be treated differently.

Sorry I killed my own thread. Didn't want to merge all bits of life on this thread but I got a bit overwhelmed.

I havent got the strength to call WA or similiar at the moment, I'm finding it hard enough to contact Cruse and winstons wish for ds.

Bad timing :(

But I have to do it. I need to make that solictor appointment don't i?

Really sorry about your dad. And about being disinherited. My parents cut me out of their will when I was married to exH. They restored me later on, after I divorced. My dad told me it wasn't about me, just them not wanting exH to get his hands on what they left (not that we're talking a vast estate, just their house really), and they'd told my brothers they were to help me out unofficially. It felt weird though.

You're right that you can only deal with one thing at a time. If you think you can't handle the divorce right now, at least looking into a deed of separation. It protects you and gives you a breathing space. The important thing is that you're away from him, and that your child is as well protected as possible. Once those things are in place, the divorce can be dealt with when you're ready.

Hello again. You sound like you're utterly and totally overwhelmed by everything - and no wonder. You've got health concerns, one of your parents has just died, you're coming out of a bad marriage and you are worried sick about your son.

Anyone who has had depression will know that the reality is: the simplest of tasks are the hardest things to do.

But that help you so desperately need is on the phone. No one is going to give you a hard time for having a hard time. Including me. Take care.

Your life sounds utterly miserable right now, Misc. Yes, you absolutely need to see that solicitor. I think you need some actual RL support as well, so would recommend trying to get through to Women's Aid. They could guide you through the processes involved and help you make a proper plan. You're amazingly brave, protecting your son from this overwhelmingly abusive man. You've been through so much and recognise that you have yet more battles to win. I'm stunned at your endurance, MA

I've screwed up courage and contacted a solicitor.

I'm trying to write a summary and timeline so I can give it to her and hopefully avoid wasting time in the meeting sobbing over lots of stuff and forgetting the main points.

God it's hard work and very traumatic. Tell me it's worth it please?

How long have you been separated? Because that is grounds for divorce if you can't face the backlash from unreasonable behaviour.

In the divorce papers, you will have to state arrangements for the children so you are going to need to tackle this one head on.

You do need legal advice. You also need a lot of strength for any divorce especially one with an abusive man. So is it the right time for you, having just lost your father?

I have been through a horrible divorce with a man who got nasty when he saw the reasons cited for unreasonable behaviour. In some ways, I wish I had waited and divorced after separation. On the other hand, I look back and think I should have got rid of him even quicker. For me though, the finances were complicated too which dragged it out which does not seem to be the case for you.

Good for you - and yes it is worth it. As there was abuse I think you can claim legal aid btw.

Sorry about your Dad.

I'm going to start a new thread - I've got the meeting on Friday pm and I need to finish the word doc summary and finding it too upsetting...