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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do I explain to immediate family why other family "are boring and moronic"?

20 replies

kiritekanawa · 25/01/2015 23:38

Short version: my parents are awful, though highly sophisticated. My relatives are nice, if unsophisticated. I get on with my relatives. My parents endelessly criticize the relatives to me, trying to teach me that the rellies are just troglodytes.

How do I handle this????

Long version:
Both my parents have undiagnosed autistic traits. I have ASD (diagnosed) and can recognize that both my parents are further along the spectrum than I am, and that this contributes to the social issues that they have.

I'm getting into awkward territory as I have relatively recently moved countries and begun to be friendly with parts of the family that my parents have always strongly disliked for exceptionally petty reasons.

Since the 1960s, the few interactions between my parents and the rest of the family have been either at my parents' house or at the mutual grandmother's house (she passed away 15 years ago).

Mutual grandmother was lovely, humble, unsophisticated, nice, and fed everyone cups of tea, orange juice, biscuits and cheese, and was delighted everyone was having a nice chat. She was a country girl who had moved to the city and not really taken on the manners of the society she'd moved into. Likewise her husband (who died before I was born).

My mother learnt to entertain guests in a different way entirely. Both parents now see my mother's way as the way to go. To them it entails getting out the best porcelain, silver cutlery, lead crystal, linen tablecloths, etc. - and my mother cooking from scratch for days beforehand like a good 1960s housewife - and being wildly insulted if a child doesn't like the (very 1960s-1970s) food, or if a well-meaning relative does the dishes and breaks a plate. They're still telling the story - to other guests - about my hapless aunt who broke a lead crystal glass, 40 years later.

Entertaining at my place, or any other relatives' place, involves a stir-fry, the kitchen plates (we don't own any others), and a nice bottle of wine drunk out of the cheap wine glasses we got for nothing 10 years ago. Sometimes I might make a cake if i'm really feeling domesticated. My parents think this is unacceptably gauche and evidence that I am subnormal and my (their!) relatives are just clueless.

The conversation is also a bit odd.

My DF has a prodigious memory for random facts and tells extremely long, involved stories - and then has conversations and wild, shouting arguments about facts, with my mother, completely excluding all the guests, whose eyes have long ago glazed over.

My mother's conversation tends to centre around facts from books she's read (that 99.99% of her guests haven't read), idolizing highly-cultured people (that 99.99% of her guests haven't heard of), talking as though she knows these people intimately, tearing other (absent) people to shreds for their perceived stupidity, boringness or frumpiness, and having shouting matches about all this stuff with my father.

So you can see that afternoon tea chez my parents is a bit bloody grim, even if the food's nice and served on nice plates. My parents have no idea why their "moronic, troglodytic" nieces and nephews appear frightened of them, why my father's siblings avoid him and DM, and why the siblings and their kids and grandkids actually all get on so well with one another. I am seen as a traitor for joining in with all the siblings and cousins.

My DM characterizes herself as the "kind generous aunt who goes to all the effort to make afternoon tea/dinners for these boring frumpy rude morons who wouldn't make conversation". She genuinely has no idea why they might not like her.

My Df has some insight as to why other people might just not "be into" him or my DM. He'd characterize people stepping back a bit as other people having their own lives to lead and maybe just not having that much in common with him and DM.

Is there anything I can do other than turn it all into a novel (slightly too much like Brideshead)?

OP posts:
QueenofallIsee · 25/01/2015 23:46

Why do you have to do anything? If your parents really are that unaware of their manner, you will not easily persuade them differently. What is prompting you into feeling as though action is needed?

kiritekanawa · 25/01/2015 23:52

I think it's the frequent conversations now had where they repeatedly criticize the (perfectly fine) rest of the family. I've stopped many of these conversations, saying "this isn't something I want to listen to, I have stuff to do, goodbye", but it happens so often - they are really trying hard to convince me that I need to change and that they are right and their relatives are dreadful - that I think I need to change how I deal with it.

My mother is also someone who holds grudges for life - everything happening in her life has generally been someone else's fault. So she has stored up all the instances of why her inlaws are so dreadful, and can list them prodigiously.

I increasingly feel I need to cut across that crap with an explanation that will get through to my parents that their way of being isn't the only one on the planet, and indeed isn't the one that many people prefer.

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Whatthegeoff · 25/01/2015 23:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsCakesPrecognition · 25/01/2015 23:58

They are what? 60-70 yo? You don't stand a chance of changing them. All you can do is change the way you react to their behaviour. And you enjoy spending time with your wider family, then do...but maybe avoid relaying all the details back to your parents.

kiritekanawa · 26/01/2015 00:00

Whatthegeoff - crikey - how rude to your FIL's sister! Yes, that's the kind of thing...

There's a slight difference of context relative to the UK, in that in the UK they would be rather like Hyacinth Bucket, i.e. class-relate snobbery - but in Australia where they live, there is less of a class thing going on - it's more a 1970s academic vs 1970s rest of world type snobbery. David Lodge or Malcolm Bradbury probably could've characterized it reasonably well Grin

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KouignAmann · 26/01/2015 00:01

Sounds like you have a choice. Either grit your teeth and put up with the snobbishness without confrontation and just spend as much or as little time with the two sides of the family as you wish or spell out the behaviour that is upsetting you and ask them not to do it. In the latter case you may bring about an improvement or you may burn some bridges and find your parents don't want to see you.
I think I would go for the first option and spend less time with the parents and more with the relatives.

kiritekanawa · 26/01/2015 00:03

MrsCakes - yes, over 70. DF's siblings are closer to 80.

I guess i am looking for an explanation that will make my parents feel less betrayed by me, and less hurt about apparently being excluded by DF's siblings/nephews et al. - so not really looking for changes in parents' behaviour, more for ways of helping my parents understand these other people are not being malicious, and indeed aren't moronic at all.

"If you talk to X about something X is interested in, the conversation generally flows very well" is not a viewpoint I've ever managed to get across to my parents...

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MrsCakesPrecognition · 26/01/2015 00:12

Could you tell them that even the Royal family make conversation with people from a whole range of backgrounds and they are polite and tolerant (even if the person is boring or asking the same moronic question which they've heard a million times before)...and they do this because it is the kind thing to do and you never know when you might come across a new or interesting idea. Or if not the royals, someone else your parents respect, who a beacon of good manners and tolerance.

kiritekanawa · 26/01/2015 00:16

Grin Good idea.

I would need to work around each parent then independently saying "but I'm not remotely interested in [favourite topic of rendom rellie], why on earth should I be asking them about it? I don't want to know the details, it's stupid and they're moronic for being interested in it."

ah autism. I know my family is lucky that these social issues are about the worst aspects of ASD that we have to deal with. That blank wall of incomprehension is still a rather large wall though!

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trackrBird · 26/01/2015 00:50

I don't think the main problem here is undiagnosed ASD though, at least not with regard to your DM. I don't know what it is: only that, with her, you're describing something of an aggressive superiority complex, with a tendency to blame others and a problem with empathy.

With the disclaimer that no one can or should diagnose by Internet, have a look at narcissism/NPD, and see if any of it looks familiar.

The chances of helping them understand others' views are limited, by the sound of it; though it's brave of you to try. You might find yourself in the firing line however gently you raise the issue.

kiritekanawa · 26/01/2015 01:05

trackrBird - there are some other reasons why I think DM has autism specifically (social integration, obsessive interests, many many sensory issues), but yes, NPD does look a bit familiar too, good point.

I think that being a fish out of water in a 1950s playground, learning all the social rules then by rote due ot total lack of social insight, and being baffled ever since by people who don't conform to the rules of 1950s-60s high-society snobbishness and consumerism, makes her worried and insecure. Whether that's something to be got round with autism in mind, or with NPD in mind, probably comes to much the same thing.

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Aussiebean · 26/01/2015 03:09

You also don't need to actually tell them you are spending time with them.

My mothers hates my fathers side. Hasn't got a nice thing to say. I don't tell her.

kiritekanawa · 26/01/2015 03:20

yep. I gloss over it. Unfortunately a fair bit gets reported back via one of the siblings who does her best to be polite to my parents (though it is clear that she finds them a bit odd). i can't really tell her to stop what she's doing - she is trying to find things to talk about with them!

So I sort of can't win - if I report details of social events, it results in criticism, if I don't report details, I get grilled as to why I'm having a secret relationship with such dreadful people and what it is I'm trying to prove against my parents.

It's all a bit obsessive and silly. I guess i should just nod and smile and give up the notion that i can fix anything.

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Isetan · 26/01/2015 05:59

so not really looking for changes in parents' behaviour, more for ways of helping my parents understand

'Helpinhg my parents understand' is the same as changing their opinion and you can't, this is who they are.

If they start being rude about other people, change the subject and if they continue, physically remove yourself from the room.

Diagnosing them won't change who they are and can't help you to be comfortable around their unpleasantness.

Seriouslyffs · 26/01/2015 07:16

Their opinions don't matter. Steer the conversation yourself if it's really grinding your gears, but remember you won't change them and it doesn't matter.

Ragwort · 26/01/2015 07:29

You're not going to change them, the only thing you can change is your own attitude.

I know it's tough, my mother is similar, very 'snobby' about certain members of the family .......... it drives me mad but she's not going to change (in her 80s) however many times I kindly say 'well, I enjoy seeing Auntie X' or whatever. I once did have a bit of an all out row with her about how 'judgemental' she appears, but of course she didn't accept a word of it. Grin.

tigermoll · 26/01/2015 07:41

I agree that it will be almost impossible to get them to change what they actually think, due to a) their age and b) the fact they have each other to normalise how they are behaving.

BUT you might be able to train them to alter their behaviour around you - it will take time, patience and a superhuman level of consistency from you, but it is possible.

Decide what you are going to do when your DF or DM starts up about 'not liking' the rest of the family - it could be a phrase like 'I find this topic very boring' or 'please stop talking about this', or it could be a physical action, like leaving the room or (my favourite) putting in headphones. Explain to your parents that the subject of the family is now closed and that you will be doing/saying this every time that they bring it up from now on.

Then be consistent in performing your chosen action. It will take a long time, but they will eventually learn that this is all the response they are going to get from you.

HellKitty · 26/01/2015 07:51

My mother is a snob and will gossip and make fun of everyone to me. And probably about me if I'm not there.

They like to argue? Argue back. Don't retreat or try to get them to see they're being judgemental. Next time they poke fun say, 'well I think x is an amazing person because she does xxx and was so kind when I needed her.' Or whatever. When the story of the 40 year old broken wine glass comes around again - finish the story for her! If they joke that x doesn't know a certain author reply back with something that x can do brilliantly, and better than DM. Turn it into a joke at your DMs expense. You won't be able to change them but you will be able to make their stories seem ridiculous and their superiority a total non starter.

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 26/01/2015 09:44

A novel? More like a trilogy. Move the setting to tidewater Virginia for the snobbery with the rellies from the Appalachians, stick in some gratuitous sex and meth labs, add a dodgy politician or too (I believe Oz has a plentiful supply to use as templates) and then retire on a pile of money. 2000 words a day, starting now. Smile

kiritekanawa · 27/01/2015 01:24

Haha, DisgraceToTheYChromosome.

We've had the first two books - the first would be contrasting 2 family lifestyles/modes of entertaining in the one suburb, with rescue or corruption (according to how you see it) of my father in the 1960s & 1970s; and the second book in the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s where the rest of the family has moved away to a land of outdoor pursuits, scout troops, sailing, niceness, icecream and sunshine; while my sister and I get brought up to be urban sophisticates and self-destruct... the third book hopefully sees me comfortably joining the outdoor pursuits/niceness/icecream and meanwhile not too much further self-destruction from my sister, while the parents mellow into old age. I wish.

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