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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DM - drives me bonkers with digs

20 replies

NotLoveActually · 24/01/2015 16:20

Right, my dm, lovely though she is, is very pessimistic. Every meal out she has is described as 'distinctly average' and I would probably want to spend more time with her, going places, going out to eat, if this wasn't the case. My DDad is very laidback and just lets her get on with it. Anyway, I got a new skirt delivered yesterday, black midi length, chiffon knee length skirt underneath. DM tuts and goes 'well that's hardly what you call a skirt is it' closely followed by 'why do you never buy coloured things' and finally 'I think you're a bit old for it' I'm only 33! Anyway, I just feel like she never has anything nice to say to me. I passed my driving test last year, and while she was very pleased for me, hugs, card etc, then there was a barb along the lines of 'well you'll probably get quite fat now that you won't be walking everywhere' wtf?? Anyway, not seeing her isn't an option, we live too close, and my dc love her, and sleeping over at her house (whole other set of issues there) but I just generally feel very tongue tied and unable to stand up to her. Any tips? This probably comes from being a child and being told that I would argue black and white, start a fight in an empty house etc etc. All the while, I'm just very independent, and regardless of what I'm told to do, if I don't think it's the best course of action, I do it the way I think is best. Generally, I've always been seen as the difficult child out of my db and I, and it's really pissing me off that I feel so impotent to deal with this behaviour when I'm so assertive in every other aspect of my life!!!

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/01/2015 16:50

You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, your mother is no different. If your mother cannot or will not behave decently then she should get to see none of you. Some parents really should not be allowed access to their grandchildren, they really should not.

No she is not lovely and your role here in this is one of scapegoat for her inherent ills. She has been conducting her own campaign of emotional abuse against you for many years.

It is totally unjust that you have been seen as the "difficult child" out of you and your brother, this has been entirely your mother's doing. You can break away from her control; this is really about power and control.

Your brother's role is likely one of "golden child" but that is a role too not without price. He is totally unaware of this price to be paid and his position though favoured is really a tenuous one too.

I would not let your dad off the hook either; he has played the role of bystander to perfection. He being weak too has acted out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He has also failed utterly to protect you and your brother from her mad excesses of behaviour. He does not want to protect you from her mad excesses of behaviour either and would rather see you cop it than he.

Your mother has not been also above projecting her own insecurities onto you; it is really she that would start a fight in an empty room etc. You were not responsible, you were just a child. She failed you utterly as a parent and she is frankly a toxic grandparent as well to your children now.
She has trained you to be subservient, subsume your own needs and compliant to the point that you have no say when it comes to at all challenging her.

Where are your boundaries with regards to your mother; these seem to be far too low currently and she is taking full advantage of you basically not being able to stand up to her. You are deeply in fear, obligation and guilt with regards to your mother. Every cause for celebration you have had has been put down by her, she cannot bear to see you happy at all. Even buying something like a skirt (and your description of it is perfectly acceptable) is cause for her to put the boot into you. She cannot stand to see you happy and is wanting to keep you in the role she has cast you in. Your relationship with her is dysfunctional and she along with her enabler DH has been the cause of that dysfunction as well.

It is NOT your fault she is like this. You did not cause her to be that way and it is likely that her own childhood featured emotional abuse in it too. It is no excuse or justification for her actions now, I am just trying to further show you that you yourself have not caused her to act in the ways she does and has done.

Your DC may well "love" her but they are too young to realise just what is going on here. They are seeing you as their mother completely disrespected by her; they are really getting mixed messages here.
You are the parent and have the final say; they should not be going over there to sleepover; you have to protect them from malign influences. Do you trust her with your children, after all they are your most precious resource.

I would suggest you read and post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages and read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward. I would also consider seeing a counsellor to discuss this, it is important though that you find someone who has no bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/01/2015 16:52

And I am sorry as well to tell you that your mother will not change.

You can change how you react to her and I would certainly keep your children away from her too.

Would you consider moving house?

Quitelikely · 24/01/2015 16:57

See it this way - could your mother just be very analytical? Weighing up things, good and bad, then letting her thoughts out into the open? She's not attacking you as such, just offering an opinion on something, weighing up the pros and cons.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. You don't have to agree with her. I'm sure she wouldn't mind.

Quitelikely · 24/01/2015 17:00

Keep the children away from her? No way would I do this. From what you have said she's a pessimist at worst!

AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/01/2015 17:17

I would think that practically every time that OP and her mother meet, her mother gets a dig in. Its been over trivial stuff such as an item of clothing (the OPs own choice of skirt was undermined) and meals; her mother is never happy unless she is unhappy. She cannot bear to see any happiness in her DD. I would also think that she behaves completely differently around her son and he does not get anything like this said to him. All that her mother keeps telling OP indirectly is that she and her own choices are not good enough.

Any dissent from you is not at all tolerated; infact you cannot challenge her words because she has told you that you cannot and you've been conditioned not to. Its a message that has been drummed into you over the years.

It is of no surprise to me that you may well be assertive in all other areas of your life but when it comes to your mother you cannot be.

What is your mum actually like with your children NotLoveActually?. Has she herself got a favourite one, has she ever encouraged them to keep secrets from you. Such people as well tend to over value or under value the relationship with their grandchildren.

The damage that she has herself done to you is immense OP and she will behave not too dissimilarly to your children given the opportunity.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/01/2015 17:21

The only defense against your mother's pessimism is to directly confront her by saying, "I don't want to hear your pessimism".

Or to pre-emptively not allow her to come into your personal space. Trying to argue with her is futile because her pessimism has roots that go way down into the basic structure of her personality.

bettyboop1970 · 24/01/2015 17:31

Some good books about this subject
Difficult Mothers
Will I ever be good enough
Read them and then tell DM to read them
Say Look mum, these books are about us
Move house, limit time with DC's before she turns them against you
My friends mum done that with her DS

NotLoveActually · 24/01/2015 18:09

Had to nip to shops there, so just read the replies, thanks. Oh dear this isn't going to stop, is it? I did kind of know that myself, she's just always been like this. I honestly get heartburn when I get so worked up afterwards once we're apart at how I should have reacted. She seems to be very good with my kids, and I haven't noticed any unreasonable behaviour to them, about me. However, it just seems that everything has a 'but' or a pessimistic side to it. For example if dc want to stay over, or go visit there's always a caveat applied, like, oh I need you to pick them up at 930am because I've got some shite to be doing somewhere to be, or the floors need washed etc. It's hard to explain, she's just very hard work. My brother actually gets it as well, he's not the 'golden child' as such, he just wasn't perceived to be as 'disobedient' as I was growing up. He was a much more timid child while I was the stubborn one. We just have a very difficult relationship whenever I don't agree, to the extent if we were in a shop (as happened recently) and when dm picked up a top she liked to ask my opinion, I said it wasn't my thing but would suit her, was told that she wasn't surprised because I would say I didn't like it just because she did????

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/01/2015 18:17

Dysfunctional people are very hard work indeed. You still would not have tolerated this from a friend though and your mother is no different.

No it is not going to stop and she is not going to change. All you can do is completely limit all time you spend together; no more shopping trips for instance.

Your boundaries are too low and need to be further raised. At the very least if you do at all continue to see her on any basis you need boundaries. What she is doing here to you is unacceptable and you and your sibling have been damaged by her dysfunctional parenting. She will do very similar emotional harm to your children given the opportunity.

You are the parent here re your children and you have the final say. Its not up to them, they are too young to realise that she is not the nice nan she should be.

Meerka · 24/01/2015 19:10

I would say keep the times you see her short enough that you don't come out wanting to run a hundred miles to get rid of the stress.

If you have to, try to think of her in a sort of professional way, as if she was a difficult client or customer.

Play Bingo. A game with yourself, guessing what form of negativity she'll come out with in response to any given comment. When you guess the comment she comes out with ahead of time, check it off in your head. When you get to 10, reward yourself with a glass of wine or something later =) The point is to make a game of it and help keep it from getting to you so badly.

Don't tell her anything that will really hurt when she comes out with her glum comment (you probably don't, already)

Does she have any form of depression? it sounds like she finds little joy in life and her comments have a way of draining the enjoyment from everyone else, too.

LesserOfTwoWeevils · 24/01/2015 20:57

How is she lovely?

IAmNotAMindReader · 24/01/2015 22:16

You can either smile and let it wash over you or pull her up on it. the good old mn classic "Did you mean to be so rude?" could serve you well here.

chrome100 · 25/01/2015 07:26

My mum is exactly the same. It's so draining. I can't even begin to tell you the atrocities she's come out with over the years.

It's taken a lot of practice but I have learned to let it all wash over me. If she's negative or critical I just breezily change the subject.

In an ideal world id make her see her comments aren't appropriate, but have realised that's HER and the best way to maintain a good relationship is to ignore it.

MarshaBrady · 25/01/2015 07:54

It is a sustained attack on your character which started in childhood, so you're used to it by now.

I'd draw some personal space. It will take an effort to do this as you are very close. But the benefit will be that she doesn't repeat with your children. If she starts saying oh dc1 is just like you, difficult can argue in an empty room, I'd be out of there like a shot.

Don't let her cast the same negative attributes on your dc.

And also you, you have been conditioned to hear it for too long.

Pagwatch · 25/01/2015 07:59

Like Lesserofteoweevils I am curious as to in which way she is 'lovely'

NotLoveActually · 25/01/2015 12:39

Chrome, that is exactly what it is, draining. I'm a very positive person and feel like she tries to suck the happiness out of some situations. If I confront her over anything she doesn't react well, leaves the room, sulks and won't speak to me for say, a week. I suppose I don't really know which way she is lovely, somehow it seems quite wrong for me to say 'my mum is actually horrible and a pain in the arse'??

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/01/2015 12:46

"If I confront her over anything she doesn't react well, leaves the room, sulks and won't speak to me for say, a week"

And you know why she does that; its because it works and gives her attention. You worry about her after she's done that. And who restarts contact after she does not speak to you for a week?. She's basically putting you in your place till you learn to comply again; no dissent from you is tolerated but she can criticise you without sanction. You've really become thoroughly conditioned to this with the result you cannot stand up to her at all.

In your case it is not wrong or selfish to call her a nasty persona and a PITA. She has after all previously labelled you as "difficult". It is really she who has been the difficult one here and she likely learnt an awful lot from her own emotionally abusive parents.

Setting more boundaries for her would be a start but I can see her riding roughshod over these. You need physical and mental distance from her.

JoyceDivision · 25/01/2015 12:51

Answer her remarks to wind her up...

'Well now you're driving I suppose you'll get fat' reply with a big happy smile 'Oohh I hope so!'

'That's not a skirt' - reply 'I know, it's a dress, a really short one!'

'Why do always wear black' - 'Oh you know I love all the gloomy look'

'You're too old for it' - 'Yeah, I but I like to look ridiculous'

So you're not arguing with her, you're agreeing with and winding her up... Grin

MatildaTheCat · 25/01/2015 13:31

No, she won't change so you'll just have to find a way of letting it wash over you. I could recite hundreds of awful things my mum has said to me over the years. She's pessimistic and also has a habit of just saying stuff without thinking how it sounds. If i do pull her up she's a bit sorry but mainly we all let it go and do a bit of eye rolling. Smile

Don't move, just grow a big thick skin and have a few stock phrase ready. It genuinely doesn't matter if she likes your skirt, does it? Fwiw, I feel really sorry for mum sometimes because a lot of people must think she's quite rude or ungracious and I honestly don't think she means it Hmm.

AHatAHatMyKingdomForAHat · 25/01/2015 21:25

I have a toxic DM. On the rare occasions DM is visiting, DB and I will prepare a set of statements about nice things that have happened to us or things we are happy about. Things that no normal person could object to. We tell her these things. Then we watch her reaction. It is terrifying how determined she is to make sure we feel bad, guilty, beneath her or such like.

When you bait deliberately and observe dispassionately you learn a lot.

When "baiting" involves simply being happy and expressing happiness, well, wow.

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