Confused and I think I may ramble...

[wonderwoman21]

I am sorry if I do ramble. I find Mumsnet so supportive and because I am very isolated, a Godsend to be honest.
I have been in many abusive and negative relationships and have now found someone who is caring and loving and puts me first and loves me very much.
But sometimes I think we are quite different and wonder if that is a problem.
He was with someone for 28 years before me and that has had a big effect on him. He talks about how she seemed to admire and love him, yet she left him for another, said she hadn't been happy for many years and took three months to move out, carefully labelling boxes and bags while watching him break his heart over her. I find it difficult because one minute he says he considered she loved him, the next he says she left him with huge debts. They hadn't been intimate properly for ten years, yet his family says how close they were in public, always holding hands. It leaves me entirely confused. He says she was never his ideal woman and says he always hoped she would amount to something more, they never communicated how they felt, he even had an affair himself (because someone showed him attention, and he regrets this so much, saying it led to the breakdown of the marriage) and that is hard to swallow too because as an outsider looking in, I can see many many reasons why their marriage broke down! So I suppose I am up against a 28 year relationship before me.
Sometimes I think he is in love with being in love, that he would be happy with anyone provided they had some qualities that he admired. Whereas I want more in many ways.
Then there is me, I am nothing like his ex. I want to get out there and make a difference. I want to help animals, help vulnerable people...and I would do anything to achieve those aims. I am working on this now as I think this is my 'calling'. Perhaps I should be with a passionate 'activist'...this is what I sometimes think. The man I am with is happy with a peaceful life. I suppose I want to light a firework and throw it around a bit!
So I finally find someone who treats me right, and he certainly does and I am confused.
Does any of this make sense?

To some extent it does make sense.

You are not used to calm, peaceful and loving so maybe after the initial first phase has worn off it may seem a bit......boring?

Although no one likes abusive it certainly sets the adrenalin rushing through our veins and maybe you miss the adrenalin rush ( medically speaking.)

Maybe there's a way you can combine some thrills with your new partner. Maybe a sport thatcan give you that excitement.

A lot depends on what life stage you're at. Calm, loving, dependable and peaceful in your sixties and beyond can be just the ticket.

Just to put another point of view forward as well: just because someone is calm and peaceful and loving doesn't mean that they are compatible with you. You don't need to choose someone on these qualities alone, simply because they're new.

Anyway, given what you've related about his marriage, don't mistake calm and peaceful for 'simple' either. He sounds complex. That's not a red flag in and of itself. But you might be both over-simplifying and over-idealising based on only three criteria, when he is quite obviously a whole lot more.

Thank you Dowser and gatewalker, what you have both said makes a lot of sense. I think it is partly to do with adrenalin, because as you say, though abusive relationships are awful, there is something addictive about the highs. Alas I am not in my sixties yet! I think too that he is quite complex and perhaps has simply glossed over the truth and accepted things in the past that he is now coming to realise. I am hoping that love will conquer all :-) Thank you again.

If you think he is in love with being in love with anyone, do you get the feeling you could be anyone and it wouldn't matter? Does he want to be with you or do you get the feeling he would be content with any Live Woman because he's really still stuck in the past 28 years?

Oh yes Wrapdress, direct and straight to the point which I really value. It is exactly that...this is what I have said to him and been afraid of...that I could be anyone. Provided I had a few qualities that he wanted...my fear is that it isn't so much me he is in love with but being in love. It bothers me as I can't know for sure that it is true. Sometimes I think it is just me doubting or my own low self esteem or something but in the past, he deliberately ignored major incompatibilities with his ex wife. How can I find out it is me he is in love with and not just in love with being in love?

From your OP what I'm reading is that he was with someone for 28 years. She wasn't his 'ideal woman.' He wanted her to change and get better. They stopped having sex. He then cheated on her and the marriage ended. Is that correct?

Hi Cailindana, thank you :-) No not quite, he was with someone for 28 years. She indeed wasn't his 'ideal' woman but he had low self worth and accepted her for what she was. It was actually about halfway into the marriage that he was unfaithful, felt he'd made a terrible mistake and was intoxicated by another woman's attentions, ended it and tried to make the marriage work. It continued for at least another ten years. However, in that time, his ex wife didn't admit that she wasn't happy, she had an affair and because she wasn't sure if the other man would take her on, continued with both of them. It took her three months to pack her stuff and leave my OH. They stopped having sex actually after his affair not before; his guilt overwhelmed him but the marriage was on the rocks. I just don't think either of them wanted to admit that, and his ex sought out an escape route. She is still with this other man but from all accounts is not happy.

You know this calling to help animals and vulnerable people?

Keep the lame ducks as a hobby, don't have them in your personal life.

I cringed at you effectively saying he had an affair because of his low self worth.

Drop the project love!

Go find someone with self worth.
Or, maybe just someone who isn't a cheat.

He sounds a bit too self pitying for me. All this "he had to watch her label boxes for 3 months breaking his heart". How melodramatic and tiresome he seems. He can't have it both ways. He cheated on her, she was never the woman he wanted. How was she supposed to move out, but for packing her boxes up?

I know it's a very artificial thing, reading just a post and judging a person. But honestly, he just sounds self pitying and tiresome, and you sound like you'd be a "fixer".

Why wouldn't you just hold out for someone who isn't damaged? Oh yeah, and a cheat.

And you know what, get yourself a big pinch of salt to go with the story that he ended the affair from guilt.
Yeah, maybe.
And maybe she dumped him.

"I don't think either of them wanted to admit it"
"She sought an escape route"
" he had low self worth"

You're analysing their relationship (all assumptions) a lot. In my experience, that's the actions of a "fixer", always trying to understand, explain, accept".

Some people would just think "hmmmm, he's a liability - next!" you know.

Hi Cabrinha, of course I appreciate that you don't know the whole story. We all just give snippets here that we feel are relevant :-) But I know an awful lot about the story of his previous marriage from her own parents. They have remained in contact with my OH because they built up a caring relationship with him for 28 years. He considers them friends and I do too now. They are ashamed of their daughter and how she behaved towards him. Really ashamed. I am not saying what he did was right...no way was it, and I had real problems trying to adjust to what he did.
Her own mother has been controlled by my OH's ex and admits she frightens her. My OH's ex wife had OCD and all sorts of issues but on the subject of leaving someone, I would NEVER do what she did. She stayed living with him while she painstaking packed her stuff and labelled it. Her parents urged her to stay with them but she wouldn't do that. Then she smugly told him she had found somewhere else to live. That is so cruel, no one deserves that and don't forget, she cheated too. While she was living with him and for longer before.
When I left my ex husband, I left in a day. I couldn't bear to hurt him more than I needed to.
My OH is far from self pitying though. After she left, he thought his world was over and he picked himself up, learned from what happened and became a much better person as a result.
There are many people who have lost self worth through life experiences but that doesn't mean they aren't worth loving.
I'm glad that I haven't thought 'next' because if I did, despite my brain always working overtime, despite my doubts, I think I would lose someone very special.

For me, listing the negative qualities of an ex, talking about an "ideal woman" and how an ex didn't measure up, admitting to an affair but then trying to justify it based on a previous partner's behaviour, are all massive red flags. Massive.

You seem keen to stay with him - I'm not sure what your misgivings are?

You've just made him sound even more of a dick.
On a small amount of information, it is this having a go about her taking 3 months to move out that is pushing my buttons!

Look, they were married for TWENTY EIGHT YEARS. Why the fuck should she move out in a day, because you did? Why?
So what if her parents said she could stay there? Why should she?
I stayed in my marital home for 4 months. I could have stayed with a friend. But it was MY HOME.
I really fail to see how anyone could "painstakingly pack". She just packed.
Did she put little notes on each box "kitchen plates, how wonderful to never share a meal with him again" / "underwear - best sets for affairs"???
I suspect not.

And you've said her parents have pretty much sided with him. So - you think she should have left HER HOME to live with them? Nah.

I'm sorry, but he is bullshitting you for sympathy.
You don't spend your entire marriage thinking that she doesn't measure up, then feel upset that she's somehow rubbing your nose in it by the way she packs? WTF?!

She might be an utter cow. Who knows.
But your boyfriend is bloody milking it!

And he's still a cheat. Good luck.

And what do his parents think about his affair?

Which I note was the other woman's fault, her and her "attentions".

Not sure too why you had to add that his XW isn't happy in her relationship with OM.
You are way too invested.

I'd love to see the reversal...

"My parents bitch about me to my XH's new girlfriend. I was never good enough for him, never the ideal woman, and god did he let me know it. He cheated on me ten years ago. He thinks I don't know but - well, you can guess can't you? Tore me up at the time. Not good enough for him. We were never really intimate after that. Ashamed to say I had an affair too. Years of rejection sexually, not living up to what he wanted... Worst bit was the last 3 months after we split. He got to keep our house. My home - yet I was expected to move out overnight. Why should I? Anyway, I'm trying to move on, but it's so hard knowing that his new girlfriend is being treated to all the tales of how awful I was, from him AND my own parents."

As I say, she might be a total cow and not deserving of my sympathy. But you know what? That version I just wrote? And the version your boyfriend has? It's in between. His version is not the truth.

So, not getting into what specifically happened during the 28 years because you know it isn't rainbows and unicorns - but this feeling like you could be anyone should be the deal breaker.

I just had a date with a man - divorced after 22 years. We had one 3 hour date - long chat - sounds so similar to your story. I had the same feeling. Took me a bit to define it, but once I did, I realized he was looking for Any Live Woman to be his new companion, his next wife. If I wanted to be in a relationship at any cost, he would be the ideal man, because he was basically a nice guy. But, I am just as happy being alone than being some man's Any Live Woman.

"I hope that love conquers all", WTAF! Love does not conquer a lot of things, incompatibility being one of them.

What is the goal in dissecting his previous relationship, you are not his therapist, if there are lessons to be learned then he has to learn them.

I get the impression that he is just another one of your many causes.

Cailindana, I don't think you quite understand and have got the wrong end of the stick. These are my words, not his. He has never justified having an affair at all, he was tortured that he did it and has always blamed himself for it. He didn't list her negative qualities or an ideal woman, just spoke about what went wrong, why it went wrong and who he would have liked to have met. That's quite different.
Cabrinha, I think your comments really aren't necessary on a thread that isn't meant to be insulting in any way.
Let me just take the three months of moving out. Up until that point, she had said she loved him and then suddenly dropped a bombshell at Christmas when it happened, as she was seeing someone else. He'd just been involved in a road traffic accident where there had been a fatality. The reason why I feel it was wrong to take three months to move out is because she watched him break his heart, begging her to stay and she just didn't care less, despite 28 years together. That takes a certain type of hard person. Perhaps you are like that Cabrinha, I don't know but I am glad I'm not!
And your reversal, so very wrong. He NEVER expressed or told her she wasn't good enough, quite the reverse. He was her rock through hard times. They both rejected each other sexually (she had more vibrators than I've had hot dinners and taunted him with them) and the reason why she isn't happy now is because she ended up with someone who is possessive and controlling which is the opposite to my OH.
Though you have helped me Cabrinha, as this has pushed my own doubts away! Thanks.
Wrapdress, thank you. I can certainly see what you are saying :-)

Isetan, love can conquer all actually. If you love each other, you work to stay together out of commitment, respect and devotion.
No, he isn't one of my causes. Any man who had been in a relationship for 28 years would be affected, plain and simple.
I just want to make our relationship as good as possible.

There's 3 of you in this relationship no?

This new relationship should be about you and him and instead the narrative is entirely taken up with him and his ex.

Is he really putting you first? I think he's putting himsel and her first, you come third place.

OP what Cabrinha has said is absolutely spot on.

This is your thread OP about your relationship and the majority of your posts are taken up with the ex's behaviour and how your bf felt about it. You know about her vibrators?? Bizarre. Your partner claims she 'taunted' him with them and you fall for it??

Perhaps you don't see how bananas this all is. You say you have always been in abusive. negative relationships well this is another negative relationship. It's not normal OP. You're being played.

This thread has become useless to be honest. I have found myself now talking further about his ex to defend him. I think it is quite normal to be very affected by a relationship that has broken down after 28 years. And he doesn't talk about her, I am the one trying to understand, not him. I'm not being played. I just don't get why when it comes to talking about relationships, women here tend to get very judgmental. Other threads that I have been part of; mental health and family are never so critical and judgmental. Glad you aren't counsellors! I am bowing out now, so I won't be commenting further. I have no idea why you judge him to be a liar so automatically. Do you dislike men so much you label them this way? I think this is enough now. Please do talk amongst yourselves if you so desire. Thank you for the helpful earlier comments at the beginning of this post :-)

Ooooooh, nice dig at me there!

"Hard person... Perhaps you are one Cabrinha".

Is it necessary to personally insult me for expressing an alternative view for you to consider?

I wish I was harder, actually, I put up with too much shit in my (now ended) marriage.

You know when someone says "love conquers everything" I just think "good luck with that love".

And I love the very patronising "talk amongst yourselves" because you're soooooo going to read this

Love hasn't conquered him not making the effort to simply put his trousers on downstairs to save waking you up in the morning, has it?

I daresay she waved her vibrators at him in revenge for having an affair.

Still don't see why she should move out of her home until she was ready. He gets in with her parents - why didn't he go stay there?

But coming back to your original fear - that he just wanted A Girlfriend, Any Girlfriend.

This marriage was so bad that he had an affair. Then stopped his sexual relationship with her. She wasn't his ideal woman, he hoped she'd change. She taunted him with vibrators.

But when she wants to leave, he begs her to stay.

Now fine, we've all made bad decisions! Plenty of people post here desperate for arseholes to stay. I stayed with an arsehole too long myself. I'm not berating for it.

But I am saying that smacks of the same issue you fear. Is that why it bothers you?

It's normal to be affected by the breakdown of a long marriage. But what normal people do is lick their wounds, work through it and move on. When they're ready to date again they don't have to post mortem their relationship ad nauseam with their new partner. He's not ready to date. And your relationship is thus far an unhealthy ménage a trois.

It sounds as if you've not enough experience of healthy relationships to identify the red flags in this one.

I'm not sure why you're accusing posters of disliking men. I love men, I love my husband, my dad, have loads of male friends, worked in a male dominates environment. I know a lemming when I see one, and I've heard this particular pattern before - the sob story, the cheating, the self pity, the tales of his ex that may or may not be true but either way he shouldn't be telling. He's got free therapy so he's all right, I'm not sure what's in this for you. Except for the fact that he doesn't seem to be as bad as your exes.

You say he's in love with love, and that's a way of saying that he's not really in love with you - he doesn't see you for who you are. You're confused because you keep telling yourself he treats you right and puts you first, when in fact he's not treating you well and puts himself first.

You say you want more and I'm not surprised, have the courage and the confidence to go out and find someone who is right for you.