STBXH talks in management speak when referring to our children

[Doughnut123]

I posted on here a couple of weeks ago. My frustration was with my STBXH putting time constraints on seeing our children. He had come to see the children late one evening in the week( he works ridiculous hours, so they can't stay with him in the week). He made his usual comment that it was going to be a 'flying visit.' But this time, he said he couldn't be long, because he had a baked potato waiting for him at his flat. I was shocked by this comment, but by daughter verbalised what I was thinking. She said, 'so, you're saying that your baked potato is more important than us?'
I was SO proud of her! But he didn't really react. A few days later, I spoke to him about his behaviour and comments. He claims that he hadn't heard our daughter's comment ( hard to believe, so I think he either genuinely didn't hear it or he has chosen to wipe it from his memory). When I asked him why he has to make such comments about time constraints to the children, he said that he did it because he wanted 'to manage their expectations.'
What utter bollocks!! He used his inane management-speak when referring to the children. As though he was addressing a board meeting and they were the big bucks company that he was pussy footing around , in order to get the best financial result. I didn't speak to him about this language, but I told him that he behaves as though HIS time is oh so precious and we must all pander to him, when, really, the MOST precious time is with the children. He shouldn't be thinking of himself. They are the priority. He became defensive. Said he felt that he was under attack. I tried to make him see how damaging his behaviour was, but he just did't get it.
He's a caring man. He loves his children, but his behaviour and his stilted, ridiculous management speak has the affect of alienating him.

Said he felt that he was under attack

'Your loss mate. If you wonder why your kids don't want to know in the future, this is your answer. I am telling you now because I am a nice person.'

I think you might be being over sensitive to what you perceive to be "management speak". It's fine to challenge his priorities. But we all manage our children's expectations, he just verbalised this in a way that you don't like.

I would not talk in managerial language to a kid but i would to a grown up. If i understand it correctly it was to you so i do think you are being over sensitive over his choice of words.

But i agree that dcs are more important than a potato :)

Referring to children in management speak is a way of distancing himself emotionally. It's far easier to tick off a task than deal with the needs of real people. Sadly, I have had direct experience of more than one non-resident father and one non-resident mother preferring to almost sever contact than try to make shared parenting work in any meaningful way. The 'all or nothing' approach if you like.

In the examples I'm familiar with, the main stated reason appeared to be 'they are better off without me'. The unstated motivation was 'I can cope with what I've done if I believe they are better off without me'. I can imagine that people who give children up for adoption make similar rationalising arguments.

I realise you're angry and with good reason. However, I would suggest that you could also stress to your exH how important a part of his children's lives he is and vice versa ie. why they are not better off without each other.

Sounds like you and he need to touch base and run some ideas up the flagpole, going forward.

When I split from my DCs father he hadn't got a clue how to behave when he came to visit them at my place or, so I heard, when they went to his, he would just sit and watch TV with them; hardly speak to them; bring them home when they needed feeding. He's an intelligent man quite capable of conversation and providing food. I used to get so angry with him; and the DCs used to get upset that i was angry with him. This went on for years and got worse before it got better - sometimes he'd take them to his place, dump them in from of the TV and then go and spend 2 hours with his female neighbour!

My DC are now grown up, still have a relationship with their DF, and make their own arrangements to see him. Our relationship is amicable.

If I had my time again I would not get stressy and angry on thier behalf, but give him clear instructions about what to do - DD1 would like some help with her maths homework; DS1 would like a kick around in the garden with his new football; DS2 seems to be having problems with a new lad at school - see what you can find out etc. Spell it out for him. If he has tasks to do with them, it might make sense to him to spend time with them. They seem not to understand 'spending time' with DC or 'talking about what they've been doing'. Be specific, then the poor darling might understand.

Sometimes they are utterly clueless and so revert to what they know which is often work related. I know its immensly difficult, but if you can step back from your anger and irritation about his uselessness, it will benefit your DC

I would have seen the 'potato' as just an excuse. He needed or wanted to be somewhere else, possibly for a reason he does not want to disclose.

I don't think you can influence his choice of vocabulary. He might not like how you express things either.

I think you have to let him find his own way with the DC, and either say nothing or only things pleasant about him to them. And find ways to ignore his choice of vocabulary to you. Presumably you don't need to talk to him that often?

What age are the DCs. I think I would tell them that Dad doesn't know how to speak to children, he is only used to work colleagues or similar. They have prob already worked it out, but make it a fact not a big failing on his part, it's how he is. It's how many people are with children, even their parent.
Yes, to telling him what to do, as Twix says or even to telling the DCs what to ask of him if old enough.

I agree that it does seems as if he is distancing himself with a to do list rather than an emotional need to see his children.

Him popping in to see them clearly isnt working, so I would suggest you sit down and work out a proper schedule of contact where he picks them up for a meaningful amount of time and takes them out of the house rather than hanging around at yours. Apart from anything else, Daddy being there and then not being there (and also, not being there when he is there, iyswim) could be confusing for them.

If he has a flat then he can take them there. Maybe EOW Fri - Sun and take them out for tea one evening midweek?

The fact is, job or no job, he is a father. You are no longer his unpaid maid wife and he cant rely on you to just make them available when it suits him, he needs to organise his time to suit them. I suggest you make that clear, and also make it clear that you will ask a court to make the suitable arrangements if needs be.

Thank you to you all. I agree that maybe I am being over sensitive. He did use the language to me, not the children, but it was the way that it implies that the children have to be 'managed.' Everything has to be 'managed.' And this is one of the reasons that I left him. He would come home from the office and continue to speak in the same way. It has always really grated on me. It formalises everything and creates a distance. I had to tell him though, because sometimes he does talk to the children in an office like way, which just isn't appropriate-ie) 'we've had this discussion already!' Sometimes I would say to him, ' do you think X knows what that means?'
I think it's very sad. He spends so much time at work, that he finds it difficult relaxing and just speaking normally. And the ironic thing is that he would often complain to me about the ridiculous office jargon at work.
He does do nice things with the children, so I know that I'm lucky really. They children just don't want to stay with him much. But that's just how it is. They are teenagers, so you can't force them to stay if they don't want to.
Domino-I completely agree, it's time for us to drill down and action on the issues mentioned, going forward. Have a look at David Mitchell's Soap Box-YOU Tube Going Forward m.youtube.com/watch?v=nRr7H3woFn4- hilarious!

Thanks, I am trying all that you are suggesting Bogeyface, Fairhilda and Moniker. He started having every other Friday off last Friday. But it's just until March. But even with that, he still did it have the children over night on Friday. They didn't want to stay with him. He fed them and delivered them back at about 9pm. On Saturday he was in and out. Partly because there was a repair that had to be don, but it felt that he was just hanging about here when they all should have been with him.,the children stayed with him on Saturday night, but he brought them back at 1pm on Sunday. It's not a proper weekend. I feel that the only way he will ave them properly is if I go away for the weekend. Bogey face, he can never 'take them for tea' midweek. He commutes and doesn't get home until about 9 00.
I feel that it's all such an effort. The children want to be at home with me and I don't blame them. They will go to see him, but I don't think it will ever be the way that I would like it to be. We just have to both be there for them. They're old enough to make their own decisions. I will let them do whatever they feel comfortable with. But at the same time, I do need a break. I don't have any family who can help me.

And no you are not being over bloody sensitive about this.

Was contact ever formalised legally; it seems not. He is also popping into your residence and this is really not working out. He is still checking on you really by doing that.

I think this man is only ultimately thinking of his own self here and am not at all surprised that his children do not want to see him. He will never see how wrong he is because he is really selfish, loves only his own self and entitled; its all about him and always has been. How can you describe him at all as a caring man?.

It is telling that even though you write he does nice things with the children, they still do not want to see him all that much. They are teenagers; they're old enough to form their own opinions about him. And going a lot further forward, they are not really going to have much if any sort of relationship with him going forward either.

The DCs can arrange tickets for a film or go to a photographic exhibition, museum, skating or something they might like. Can they even choose the place to eat? Thai, Chinese, Indian, a different one each week?

My DH, if he had the DCs, took them with him to partake of his hobby. He hobbied and ignored them, they mucked about and just accepted it as being with Dad (not when they were teenagers though).

The kids will grow, maybe they can all go skiing together or something when they are older.

My eldest was very switched on and would have this set up tweaked to suit her wishes by now, getting Dad to pay for a 'vital' piece of kit she needs for example when she sees him.