How to have a healthy disagreement???

[RememberParis]

How are normal disagreements conducted? Is it normal to have occasional rows?

My DH throws out that we need relationship counselling every time we disagree. I don't want to for 2 reasons, that he convinces himself that I have spoken to him rudely when I am sure I haven't (or have I??). So everything will be misrepresented. Or not? But how would we know?

The second reason is that he gets angry in rows and I have said I refuse to discuss our communication problems unless he acknowledges his anger is a problem in itself. I feel that if he didn't get angry then differences of opinion on some issues are normal and we might move forward on them. Or are they??

Most of the time we are very happy. Rows happen only every few weeks - always over the same issues, and are never adequately resolved. Typically we disagree over something, I annoy him, he gets angry, I cry. We have a crap couple of hours - or day or so, then acknowledge its not that important and try make the best of the day/weekend left.

I think its normal to disagree and its his angry reaction that causes the row. He thinks we have a problem as we disagree in the first place.

He insists I am rude and hurtful when we disagree and getting angry is a normal reaction as he is hurt. He will say that I can say what I like but if he reacts I cry. There might be truth in this. I can't deal well with rowing, maybe my upset is disproportionate.

Would relationship counselling help? I really don't want to, completely hate the idea of talking to a stranger. Posting anonymously is fine!

Mostly we amble along happily but we had an awful row recently which must have affected my DS and I don't want that to happen again.

Sorry for the long ramble! Any thoughts welcome.

(Together 12 years, 2 children)

It sounds like you've got into a very unhealthy rut that you need help getting out of. Counselling might help a lot.
What are the things that keep coming up?
How did the row affect your ds?

What are these repeated disagreements about? What makes him think you are being rude and hurtful?

No, it isn't healthy at all to have a cycle of anger/crying. Both are disproportionate reactions to a "disagreement". They may however be usual reactions to a "rip roaring throwdown argy bargy". So which do you have, honestly? When you admit its affecting the children?

It is normal to disagree about things, after all we haven't married carbon copies of ourselves!

What's not healthy is the focus and constant issues with how you both deal with that, it's no wonder you're having the same old disagreements over and over as you're not resolving the issue.

So then you need to find a way to break that cycle, change the way you deal with disagreements. I think that's a discussion best had when your relationship is at its best and there's no disagreement. It's the old 'I love you so much but we need to improve...' line.

"Rows happen only every few weeks - always over the same issues, and are never adequately resolved"

Can you give an example of what the 'same issue' might be? Are they serious things... belief systems? values? behaviour? Everyone disagrees about something from time to time but most people tend to choose compatible partners with similar views and values. That way the disagreements are over minor matters. If the disagreements are always about the same thing and no discussion is allowed (and 'angry reactions' are usually designed to shut someone up) then these things might be fatal flaws.... serious incompatibilities that you are not going to overcome.

I think the key is to solve whatever it is your repeatedly arguing about, how it goes from the arguing topic to each other's approach to and during an argument is a bit offhand.

Maybe he gets angry and you cry because it's the same argument over and over! The same topic would get frustrating after a while!

Hi thanks. Holding a sleeping baby so have lots of time to read and think! They aren't big blow ups. I don't shout and even DHs anger is shaking, gritted teeth stuff. But I know all the barely speaking to each other, hushed arguing can't be nice for DS.

Frequent rows...
Home improvements. Some of this is about a difference of opinion about affordability and some is about having a very different view on having a nice house. It'd be nice to find a middle ground.

I sometimes undermine him with our son. I think i try to minimise this to when I think he is being too tough on DS. That was the recent row. DH would say it happens more.

And....confession, I know its a big no no, but I grumble about his parents. I host every family occasion (my family are in a difft country), cook for them lots but I'm not really that keen on this role. DH is hurt that I don't think of them as family but I find this scenario a bit claustrophobic.

I'm going to stop as every scenario is one where I sound unreasonable! Its been useful.

I'm going to find a good time to talk to DH and try to deal with the issues underlying the arguments. See if we can do it without a repeat of the usual....

Money ... (home improvements) can be a big source of disagreements with couples. Which of you thinks it's unaffordable and which of you wants the nice house?

Parenting.... very important that you both have the same approach to raising a child. 'Being too tough' with a small child in the context of a man who shouts, shakes and grits his teeth when angry strikes me as alarming behaviour. Are you minimising and undermining or are you trying to defend a child from an angry father?

In-Laws.... often a pressure point. If you're unhappy with hosting every family occasion and want to share the load, that's legitimate rather than unreasonable. To accuse you of not thinking of them as family seems to be missing the point.

Why should you cook all the time for his family, do they return that favour?

Could be that you are just fundamentally too different and the rows wont change because rarely do people change.

Then again, it sounds like counselling would be worth a shot before you think about calling it a day and you are right, your child will pick up on a very uncomfortable environment whether or not you are shouting and this is not fair and could be damaging. We do all argue and it's good to clear the air but if you are arguing this much then something needs change.

I would rather drop the home and in-law issues than ever call it a day. Neither are more important than my family. I think its been useful to remember this.

I'm sure you can guess which of us is on which side re affordability/nice house! DH is very responsible re money and I can see his point. In my defence I am not by any stretch frivolous, just want a cosey home. We live in an extremely affluent area and I think his fear is I am being sucked into being materialistic in a way I haven't been before. I think if we try and talk properly we might be able to sort this one.

I think I've been misleading re the undermining/discipline issue. Its just more severe a tone and a bit less controlled than my approach. He let's himself get wound up. I don't always parent perfectly but I have more awareness. I think we have the same approach, its just a few occassions whereI feel he gets the pitch wrong. I'm not really sure though.

It's difficult to have a healthy disagreement. It really is a skill. I used to shout and yell and hurl insults it took so long to train myself to make my points calmly and reasonably and stick to facts and not try to score points. And listen instead of half hearing the sounds while focusing on waiting for my next chance to start yelling.

To have a healthy disagreement both parties must start by believing that each has the right to their own view and the right to be heard. Both parties must be willing to listen and must be willing to put their pov forward in a reasonable manner.

Then the issues can be discussed and debated.

You can't solve anything by shouting or namecalling or trying to 'win' or any of the other things that a row generally is. That's more about letting out frustration than trying to communicate.

Is it normal to have disagreements - absolutely. Two people aren't a single mind! Even the closest couple aren't a hive mind with a single view on anything. It's unreasonable and unrealistic to expect total unity on every issue.

Not to mention dull. Who wants to be married to an exact replica of themselves?

single view on everything, that should read.

Thank you HowCanI. I think maybe I don't listen well. I hate the ranting, I end up feeling dizzy and sick, but I wonder if that happens after I've been dismissive and if I listened better it could be avoided.

I don't work anymore but isnt it funny how we can communicate well in a professional setting but not at home.

He is responsible for how he chooses to communicate just as you are.

He chooses to rant. That's on him, not you. It shows he is a poor communicator. Particularly if he isn't willing to have a conversation about it and throws out that We Need A Therapist crap - which sounds like a way to shut you up more than a genuine desire for counselling to me.

On the family occasions, why not tell your DH that you do really like his family, but you resent having to host every event, as it's a lot of work, and you don't see why you should be the one to have to do it all the time. You'd be happy to take turns with other people, or alternatively, if he wants it to be at yours all the time, then he has to do all the preparation and cooking, because you've had enough. You aren't a bloody caterer!

Alternatively, why don't you take a weekend where his family are coming round, and use it to go and visit your own family? Not every time they come over of course, but I'm pretty sure that no-one would find it weird you've gone to see them for once.

Do the arguments only happen when you disagree with him about something? I find it weird he would say "we need counselling" just because you don't agree on everything.

Because if so...

If not, well, you are both grown adults. It might be worth reflecting on your own about how you speak to him when he insists you are being rude. Think about it honestly. Maybe you ARE rude. Then again, maybe you aren't. Only you can really figure that one out. Have you asked him outside of arguments "in what way does it feel like I am being rude to you at that point" and then listen to what he has to say. You might not agree with what he says, but unless it's absolute nonsense, you might be able to find a way to tweak your approach. Likewise, even if he is angry, he is a grown man. If he expects you to control your "aggression" (being 'nasty' or whatever) then he sure as hell needs to learn to control his (intimidation). It's not a question of "oh you need to do this but I just can't help myself".

Basically though, arguments are completely different to disagreements.

You can disagree over anything and barely bat an eyelid, but arguments will always be less civilised, normally both sides will end up feeling angry and/or hurt and resent the other person for a while.

In healthy relationships no partner should ever feel scared of the other during an argument. I personally consider spiteful terms also unacceptable, as it's verbal aggression (e.g If my partner called my a "fucking bitch" or whatever during an argument I would walk out and that would spell a very serious conversation the next day. Likewise, I would never call him a "fucking bastard" or whatever during an argument). But some people are a bit more relaxed on that.

Why not see a therapist?

You are having unresolved rows every few weeks and he has said repeatedly that he wants to see a therapist about it.

It would seem reasonable to say "OK, let's do it, book us a couples therapy session, I want to break this cycle."

"He thinks we have a problem as we disagree in the first place."

This really struck me.
Is he angry that you have your own views and opinions? That's quite frightening, actually.
You are your own person, in your own right, and he should be able to accept that you have your own views, and therefore differences will occur. It is very maladaptive of him to expect that his partner should just be an extension of him, rather than her own person.

HowCanI said it very well: "To have a healthy disagreement both parties must start by believing that each has the right to their own view and the right to be heard."
I note that your reaction to this was to blame yourself for not being a good listener.
I think you should look to whether your partner is able to listen to you and see you as a person with a right to her own views!

Thanks kaykayred, all makes sense, esp re disagreeing/rowing.

Yes, I worry that's how things are Goats. Its depressing. But it would be self righteous to think he doesn't have any point. There's certainly scope for me to be more respectful in general.

What can i do other than try my best re civil tone (thread very helpful thank all) and hope things change?

No, "hoping things will change" is no good.

What you need is to establish clear benchmarks and a time limit for the changes you need, and to decide what your course of action you will take if those needs are not met.

If you are not keen on counselling, have a look into non-violent communication. It could give you both the tools you need to listen and understand one another.

I've been similarly stuck in a rut with my dp at times so I understand the frustration. I also agree with others that healthy conflict is learned and takes work. I am much more like your husband: I lose my temper when he stonewalls, dismisses, is passive aggressive. I feel ignored, undervalued, unloved. He feels bombarded. He says if I didn't get angry it wouldn't be an issue, I say I wouldn't get angry if I felt like you were listening to me. It's all communication shit isn't it?

I always end up saying we need relationship counselling because I can't keep doing this - whereas he will just try to put it away and move on. (He has agreed though, when we are in a position to do it). I feel each time it happens we get to that horns locked stonewall-lose temper point quicker because we didn't sort it out last time! We've had to make a deal...

And as a result (as ridiculous as it sounds) we have a listening plan... (Attached)

The things you argue about don't sound like mega issues like you said - home improvements piss everyone off - but they do sound like a bad communication dynamic... Perhaps you undermine him instead of addressing parenting differences, or do things begrudgingly (eg hosting his family, which he should really chip in with, or make more manageable like others are suggesting, without guilt tripping you) and that is making you resentful - understandably. You seem to want to avoid the disagreement altogether and he wants to make you agree with him! I think counselling would really help you both cos it encourages you to be really clear about things instead of mixed messages, and creates an environment where you HAVE to listen to each other and try to accommodate the other person's view and feelings... but I am a big fan of it generally, so I'm biased

Oh thank you so much sixandtwothrees. Sounds like similar rows. And like you have worked out whats going on much better than i have. Silly as it may seem I can see how the listening plan would help us. Thanks again.

I've had a quick read about non- violent communication and will read further.

Dont know what DH will think but will talk to him because posters are right. It isn't just me.

Maybe counselling isnt a bad idea but honestly I just cant magine either of us being open with a stranger present.

Although posting here has been so therapeutic. I just need to stop now! - maybe I wouldn't have a problem talking in counselling!

It is quite amazing how you end up talking in those sessions though!!

Good luck - at least you are both bothered enough about it to want to change it....