After dating 2.5 years should partners spend all Xmas Day together?

[TimeforNIN]

I'm just wondering. Do you think after dating for 2.5 years would it be unreasonable for my boyfriend to spend the whole of Christmas Day at my house?

He usually goes out with bis brothers Christmas Eve, sleeps at mine, then goes to his Mum's for Christmas dinner about midday. He then comes back later that evening.
Her other sons and (I think, but can't imagine why not) their partners also go. Their Mum lives alone.

I have two young children. He has none. We are both mid 40s. We don't live together.

I have never been invited by himself or his Mum, of course not everyone could fit around the table, but I suspect there's the usual eating dinner on the laps anyway.

He lived with someone for a long time prior to me, and they always stayed at their home together for Christmas.

I also feel a bit irrelevant when Christmas cards from his family are only addressed to me and the children, and he gets his own cards addressed just to him.
He stays every weekend, we have been on holiday together, my children call him Daddy.
Do you think perhaps his family don't consider us a proper couple yet?
I'm quite old fashioned, and it makes me a bit sad somehow.

It's not unusual to spend the day apart, but it seems to be about more than that. You want to live with him, he doesn't want to live with you. The 'I'm a plodder' thing is just an excuse.

There is no 'should' about spending Christmas together. I know couples who've been together 20 years who don't spend it together. We tend to alternate year by year- his family one year, mine the other. We've been together 6 years and have 1 dd together. We didn't spend it together until we had dd, we were always at our own families before that. Christmas is a stupidly sensitive thing which often includes having to pander to annoying and sensitive family members and what they want to do for Christmas. It's just one day and it really doesn't matter.

However the 'should' here is you 'should' be able to have a nice honest conversation about how you feel. I don't see why it would involve making him feel guilty- after all you are not angry with him or accusing him off anything just suggesting that maybe you could consider changing the tradition as a couple. It's a bit odd if you don't feel able to say that. He might just say 'Well it's difficult because mum really wants to....' or 'Mum would be upset if...' and that is perfectly normal. Or he might not have even thought about it and suddenly his mind will be open to changing the tradition.

Yeah I'd report that pm too.

I think you summed it up when you said it feels like family to you and he isn't bothered if the chn call him dad. The thing is, it wouldn't 'bother' him, there's no risk to him. I don't think it's a good thing. My exh took it very seriously when my son started calling him daddy. We discussed it at length beforehand . There's no way it would have just 'happened'.

I think there's no should.
I have just been to a neighbours to drop off gifts. Their children are there without partners for the day. Both "children" are in their early 30's. Both live with long term partners but don't have children. To them it's the norm. It works for their families.

I'd also report the PM. Not cool.

I wonder if he / his mum assume that you will want Christmas at home since you have small children, rather than taking them to a non child-friendly house for the day - they have all their toys and their stuff at home and if they'd be the only children at your boyfriend's mum's house it might not suit.

The Christmas card thing is perhaps just because you live in different houses, i.e. if they sent the card to all of you at his house, you wouldn't really see it, and likewise if they sent it to you + him at your house, he wouldn't either. Alternatively his family see this as quite a casual relationship, and to be honest nothing you've described (apart from the Daddy thing) suggests he doesn't see it as a casual relationship.

It doesn't sound like he wants to plan to move in with you - that may be the best, at mid-40s with no real experience of living with kids he might find it difficult. Equally you haven't lived with anyone for years either and might find it hard to adjust.

Perhaps you need to separate the two issues and say you'd prefer to be treated as a long term partner by his family despite living separately, unless he doesn't see you in that. In which case you probably need to start weaning the kids off calling him Daddy.

I think it depends entirely on the couple. My dp and I have been together 3 years. We bought our house together after only 11months. We have an 8month old dd and I have a dd 4.5 from a previous relationship. Her biological father has been absent for years and so she off her own back, aged 1, called dp daddy. He's been her daddy in every way since. So yes three years together has meant three Christmases together. Afraid your guy doesn't sound too hot on commitment.

I don't get the weird snobbery on MN about lengths of relationships etc. 2.5 years is pretty long, IMO.

That said, however, it sounds like he's not that into you, given that he doesn't want to live with you.

PMing you like that was totally not cool. I hope whoever did it gets reprimand by mnhq and apologises to you.

I think you may be taking this relationship more seriously than bf, and it may turn out that letting the kids call him daddy was a mistake - but it may be that the relationship eventually grows to the point you want it to be, so maybe everything will be ok.

I'd see "normal" stages going like:

spending lots of time together and staying over at weekends - Xmas would usually be apart, in most couples bf would be called by first name
moving in together and sharing all domesticity - might still spend Xmas day apart with some couples, bf might start being called uncle firstname
talking about longer term commitment. Many couples might decide at this stage that marriage isn't their thing but might talk about some symbolic expression of the permanence of the relationship, which might include bf being called daddy, and deciding to spend Xmas together as a unit.
optionally, if the couple did decide to marry, then spending Xmas together would be part and parcel of that but calling daddy might not be.

Obviously your relationship hasn't followed this pattern, and that's ok because it's not a rule book and there's probably many couples who've done things in a different order.

However, it seems that in your head the relationship is closely matching the 3rd stage on this list whereas bf just isn't there yet - and relationships can get into trouble when there's a significant mismatch between the level of commitment each person wants.

I think the card issue is right. You don't live together. If you had one card whose house would it be displayed.
I imagine that you are not invited for lunch because your not living together, she may think as you have kids that you would want to do your own thing with them. As you haven't asked your bf I think it's unreasonable to be upset that he spends it with his mum. He puts a lot of effort going back and forth from yours. I think that's lovely of him and sounds like he wants to please everyone.

I'd forget the Christmas dinner issue and think about why you are letting your children call this man Daddy.

He likes playing weekend happy families and you appear to have confused his sleepovers as commitment.

Letting your child call another man Dad who has demonstrated a reluctance in your lives converging and with whom you have only 'lightly' discussed moving in with is very poor form.

It's time to have a frank conversation with this man and start being more conscious of the long term impact that relationships have on children.

is poor form and his reluctance in your lives converging further is exactly why.

but you are your childre

You have confused him playing weekend happy families as commitment enought to warrant your child calling him Dad, it doesn't. His reluctance at your lives converging more than weekend sleepovers speaks volumes, as does you letting your children call a man Dad with whom you've 'lightly' discussed a significant example of commitment.

It sounds like you may have different values....do his family know your dc call him dad?

I guess your children will wonder why 'dad' doesn't spend Christmas with them at some stage though.

I think you should expect to spend Xmas Day together. I would be insulted if my DP in your circumstances did not want to spend Xmas with me.

I think you need to have a chat with him. Tell him that you'd like to spend Xmas Day together - either as a couple with kids at your place or presumably you and the kids could go round to his mums.

As for the Xmas card thing; when your DP sends Xmas cards, does he sign them off as being from you as well as himself or do you send separate cards? That might well be the key.