Reaching a sexual compromise

[Notfootball]

DH and I have been together 10 years and have two young DC. My sex drive has always been a fair bit higher than DH's and prior to DC we had regular ish sex, though not as often as I would like. Obviously it tailed off during the small baby days/sleepless nights but DC2 is nearly 4 and we have DTD less than 5 times a year for the last 3 or so, me always being the instigator. If I say that I understand that he has a lower sex drive but can we talk about it, he takes it as a personal affront and uses excuses such as him being lazy, tired or the bad situation with his father dampening down his sex drive.

I just want to reach a compromise where we have a bit more sex without me feeling like a bloody pest. How do I even start this discussion with him?

Sodding Cupcakes;
When the woman is the one feeling unsatisfied and unloved, she has usually tried patience, kindness., gentle conversation, being 'nice', losing weight, sexy lingerie and bottles of wine, only to be either fobbed off or told she's a slut and a nympho.

The above is sexist rubbish, plain and simple.

Having been here you are assuming it's his choice not to have sex. I'm not convinced it's that simple. That implies he wants sex just not with you. I'm guessing if he wanted sex he would want it with you he's just not ever actually thinking about sex to want it.

He might feel you are questioning his love for you. Questioning your marriage, partnership past present and future. He might be scared, embarrassed, sad, frightened and unsure.

would he see a councellor?

I'm not sure he'd see a counsellor, he's quite a private person and I cannot imagine him wanting to talk about his sex life with a "stranger". He doesn't even think the is anything wrong with it.

What are your experiences Boomtown?

He doesn't even think the is anything wrong with it.

Ouch. My DH used to say that. It hurts. Feels like gaslighting. That's when I started to suspect he was asexual.

Men are visual also sexist rubbish. People are visual to a greater or lesser extent.

However, I apologise to op for getting sidetracked by futile bickering on this important thread.

My experience is that people's sexualities can change. My exp wanted sex more than me. I found that when he wanted sex, I wanted to feel close first. So I would ask for validation or try talking to him about unresolved things while he was already interested in the next thing. I guess this came across as 'picking an argument during sex' as a pp mentioned. I simply didn't feel close enough to him to want to have sex.

Anyhow our sex life was a bit joyless as a result of not feeling close.

Now I have a new partner. I feel very close to him, and we talk a lot. We listen to each other and take each others hurt seriously.

Nofitball... I think if he is inhibited, can't talk openly and doesn't take your hurt seriously... They are key factors which mean your relationship is not workable.

What does 'being in a relationship' mean to him?

OP -- couple of thoughts on how you might work through this...

You know, he knows, and the whole world knows that 5 times a year is well outside the "normal frequency" - and this is only achieved by herculean efforts on your part. He is the one creating the problem - so possibly needs he pity rather than anger and interrogation?

So he is in denial, knows it, is defensive and underneath probably in turmoil about his low sex drive.

Is he open and honest about how often he masturbates? Is his libido really low or does he just choose to not express it with you?

But in any effective partnership we need to negotiate and compromise in all aspects of the relationship from chores to sex.

In a relationship you might negotiate how often we need the front room hoovered - doesnt mean you like doing the hoovering - but you do like doing something to makes your partner happy.

Thats the crux of it. Does you want to make each other happy? If so he needs to meet you somewhere in the middle from 5 times a year to 5 times a week.

Then you might need to compromise on the "how" - maybe he does not want penetrative sex or the pressure for him to reach orgasm each time. Would a sex life where he brings you to orgasm more frequently that 5 times a year be an acceptable compromise to you?

In a relationship you might negotiate how often we need the front room hoovered - doesnt mean you like doing the hoovering - but you do like doing something to makes your partner happy.

Reluctant pity sex is sex not worth having imo. It feels degrading.

Let's be honest. How many people with a healthy sex drive are gagging to get it on with someone who really isn't into sex. Let's figure out how to have a fulfilling sex life with someone who'd rather have a nice cup of tea instead.

It won't work.

Why would it necessarily be pity or reluctant sex?

If they talked it through and agreed the details of the WHEN and HOW - why could it not be "I am doing this to give you pleasure, make you happy and sustain our marriage and family life?" and "I am delighted and respect that you have made this effort to satisfy my sexual needs"

The OP is looking to negotiate a better compromise - she has been able to tolerate this situation for 10 years.

Some people simply have very low libidos or are asexual. It's just the way they are - but these people need to accept that they cannot insist on monogamy unless they are in a relationship with another asexual. It is quite simply unfair to decide that your partner must remain celibate indefinitely against his/her wishes. An asexual person can (in eveyr other way) be a lovely partner and an excellent co-parent. If it weren't for the cultural obsession with monogamy and the idea that anyone who is a good sexual partner should transition into being a longterm relationship partner rather than a FWB or ONS, lots of people would be a great deal happier.

SolidGoldBrass - yes there needs to be negotiation and compromise in the relationship - same as my hoovering analogy one person might be a slob and content to be a pig in shit the other a clean freak so they both need to move a bit - or get a cleaner (the FWB or ONS).

A stand off is corrosive, unhealthy and not sustainable.

Something I think about a lot is the difference between the ways men and women learn about sex. I don't know if this is just me, but I don't think it is, and I do think it's relevant.

At the risk of generalising or opening a can of worms, I suspect a lot of women's early sexual experiences are not exceptionally gratifying. I know mine weren't - it took a long time for me to know my body well enough and be confident enough to tell a partner what was needed in order for me to get off. I just feel like there's a huge amount of false information, from media, even books, just everywhere, about what good sex for a woman consists of. As a result, I spent much of my early sexual years... not pretending, per se, but there was definitely a certain amount of generosity in my responses to sex, in that I felt like I 'should' be enjoying it - and I did! But not always as much as I was indicating. Basically, I learned quite young to - I suppose compromise, sexually, in that I wanted my partners to enjoy themselves, and I got used to the idea that they would almost always orgasm, and I might not.

What I'm getting at, is that I think a lot of women are quite used to sexual compromise, and I don't think men are, to the same extent. And I do think that when you get to an issue like this, those years of learning and socialisation make it difficult.

I don't know, maybe I'm just really wordily saying - hey, I've had sex loads of times when I didn't really feel like it, and I don't think my partners were ever aware that they were getting, for want of a better word 'pity' or 'obligatory' sex. And I wouldn't have wanted them to - because for me, it's part of making someone happy and in a loving relationship we all do lots of things like that. But in my experience men don't seem to be able to do this as easily.

LastTango - very well said -- we have all at some point or another compromised, too tired, too bored, not in the mood - but chose to please our partner and this has been reciprocated when we were up for it and they were nt.....thats fine and normal but in the OP case the gulf is wide and extreme and in reality needs very compromises on both sides to bridge it.

In an ideal world, I would have sex 5 times a week. I would compromise with sex about once a week. My DH is content with the quantity/lack of sex we already have, about 5 times a year if I suggest it, that doesn't take into account the times I have requested it and he has said no. If I hadn't suggested it, it may have not happened at all. I believe that sex is literally the last thing on his mind.

TMI alert but I am adapt at bringing myself to orgasm, I have to be. I want proper PIV sex, it can be a long session or a quicky, I just want the physicality and the good of it. From what he has said, it seems that he enjoys a chaste kiss and the odd cuddle but would rather it led nowhere, no fumbles, no sex.

First of all I've re read this post from start to finish again - I apologise because my feedback doesn't look right now, with hindsight.

It looks to me, like he just has a huge hang up with sex full stop, linked with your comment that he's very private, just suggests to me that he's very inhibited full stop (I think I'm playing catch up to the conversation here).

Is there any mileage in trying to get to the route of his hang-ups? Is it his own body...or his concept perhaps that sex is dirty...or perhaps he finds it hard to see women as sexual beings (is this not linked to lots of affection only?...)

PS. I liked LastTangoInBognors posts - socialisation is a massive part of the problem...from both sexes

OP...what is the quality of sex like with him...assuming good if you want more of it from him? How does he rate the quality of the sex? Would he be interested in using porn or sex toys to trigger his libido....what specifically does he not like - penetrating? orgasm?

Negotiating to meeting in the middle is not looking likely numerically when he is coming from a preference 0-5 times per year and you are coming from 260 times per year - your compromise is to cut this to reduce x5 to 52 times - but he would have to increase his pref frequency by x10-x50..... not sure where the middle is...can someone else do the maths?

www.relate.org.uk/relationship-help/self-help-tools/book-shop/books-about-sex

This might help you both better understand and negotiate the situation realistically.

There are also lots of online resources on their website which might help.

Butter if you don't mind me asking, how did you conceive your children?

Wow, there's a lot of people projecting on this thread. You know some people do just have low sex drives. There was a thread a little while ago about how often MNers have sex. I was surprised how many said twice a year and were content with it. If these women are allowed to be content with that I don't see why your DH can't be. I don't think he has to have some underlying issue.

He should though be willing to compromise with you. Could you suggest once a month as a starting point? And gradually up it to once a week. I would try and schedule it to begin with-sounds boring but does seem to help in these situations sometimes.

Also very surprised to see a husband be called controlling for not wanting his wife to have affairs!

Cheese you are gaslighting Someone is controlling if they are enforcing celibacy on someone else. It is not their fault if they have a low or NO sex drive but it IS their fault if they refuse to talk about or discuss it or refuse to do anything about the problem. Sorry but i think you are doing a little projecting yourself here. If they refuse to do anything about it but try to enforce celibacy on their partner for YEARS (im not talking about the temporary cessation of sex after childbirth) then they are in breach of the marriage contract just as much as someone who has an affair.

You dont get to cherry pick the vows you fancy keeping and leave the rest!

No one should EVER be coerced into sex they dont want but no one should have celibacy enforced on them by a partner either.

Perhaps it's a generalisation, but I do wonder if some men with supposed-low-sex-drives just aren't interested in having sex with their wives, but would happily take the opportunity to have it elsewhere? Is their refusal to have sex a way of forcing an open relationship?

lotsofcheese - I do wonder about 'low sex drive' vs 'don't want to have sex with you specifically' but I'm an optimist about the human race and feel like the number of people who would intentionally manipulate the situation to try to wangle an open relationship must be quite small, given the many ways that could backfire. And I also think people who would be underhanded enough to do that would surely see simply having affairs as an easier solution.

In my experience the 'is it just me?' question weighs quite heavily on the women I know who are in this position. I figure I can't dwell on it, as if I did it would destroy me, and by extension my relationship. Maybe it is just me, maybe it isn't, but the upshot is the same - no sex.

Interesting theory lotsofcheese but if that is the case then they should STILL discuss it with their partner instead of playing silly childish games. And by "open relationship" they need to be prepared for that to work both ways.

Last Tango....it isnt you Really it isnt.

Watching this thread with interest. My DH has refused sex with me for years and on the rare occasions we did it, it was entirely on his terms and for his delectation, and crap.

Now that we are talking about separation and divorce he's suddenly keen to fix it and got his GP to prescribe loads of cialis, and is seeing a counsellor and is apparently "up for it." Having had years of rejection and frustration, now sex couldn't be further from my mind, and he says I've moved the goalposts. But it just feels like now he's prepared to have sex with me cos it's a deal breaker, rather than wanting me for me.