Reaching a sexual compromise

[Notfootball]

DH and I have been together 10 years and have two young DC. My sex drive has always been a fair bit higher than DH's and prior to DC we had regular ish sex, though not as often as I would like. Obviously it tailed off during the small baby days/sleepless nights but DC2 is nearly 4 and we have DTD less than 5 times a year for the last 3 or so, me always being the instigator. If I say that I understand that he has a lower sex drive but can we talk about it, he takes it as a personal affront and uses excuses such as him being lazy, tired or the bad situation with his father dampening down his sex drive.

I just want to reach a compromise where we have a bit more sex without me feeling like a bloody pest. How do I even start this discussion with him?

LastTangoInBognor what did your DH say about the open relationship suggestion?

women are raised feeling that men find them sexually attractive

True, which adds to the hurt.

Sorry about your problem Notfootball. I posted a similar issue from the other side. I think the reasons a man doesn't want sex are usually quite different.

The biggest thing that struck me is the 'sort things out with my father' comment. Which immediately looks like he's punishing you.

My other point is that some men are wishy-washy about sex full stop. They don't seem that bothered, perhaps a strange upbringing. I would say these are a minority. The rest of the 'healthy' and 'not depressed' men up to the age of say 55 - if they are not having sex with their wife are finding other outlets - ahem. I think 5 times a week would be described as above average - but why not?? life is for enjoying, and sometimes I feel there needs to be some sort of 'momentum' involved when trying to rekindle intimacy. Most of my male friends would describe sex once per week as the watershed amount - less than that and the gaps increase, more than that and it gets better.

SO...check out he not depressed from life's pressures. IF it is easy to then sort things out with his dad (why? - because it might be easy'ish and this aspect of this problem might be in your control AND it will show him you are responding to his comments WHICH leaves him less able to ignore your issues)

My final point seems a bit clichéd. Most men will sit up and notice if their partner dresses and behaves a bit more sexually, subtle things like a LITTLE bit more cleavage. Might take a few weeks. DON'T try to get looks from other men in his presence - it'll backfire.

Finally - are you sure you're doing your fair share of the housework??? (only joking :))

My final point seems a bit clichéd. Most men will sit up and notice if their partner dresses and behaves a bit more sexually, subtle things like a LITTLE bit more cleavage.

This. Doesn't. Work. in our situation. Do you not think we people with chronic lack of sex, have not tried this already? It's also offensive. It suggests that it's the woman's fault because she is seemingly not attractive enough. Fuck that. I know I'm attractive.

Cupcakes i agree Its TOTALLY offensive. Man doesnt want sex.....its the womans fault. Woman doesnt want sex .....also the womans fault Quelle surprise!

What did your dh say about the affair?

HelenaDove he nearly divorced me over it. He said it can't happen again.

Wow kind of glad Ive seen this thread (but not glad you are dealing with this). You have my sympathies. My husband (then partner) refused to sleep with me for three years but then stepped up a bit when we got married but maybe once a month at most and I instigate always (have to 'book' in advance, unsolicited advances cause panic!). He will not touch me much. It does seem to stem from anxiety issues- he has done the break to do a wee thing with me plus picked arguments (?!) in the middle. Romantic.
It's hard to believe sometimes that it's anxiety though think it is. Certainly makes me feel ugly and crap!
I hope you can work it out x

So Tango is your DH participating in the open relationship too, ie, is he having sex with others? It would take a lot of courage for me to suggest this to my DH but he already knows a problem exists. Surely, he must wonder what I'm going to do about it. It can't continue.

Cupcakes it is comforting to know other women are in this situation, I feel so alone.

Jack you're right, what a cliché. This isn't the 1950s. I have no questions regarding how attractive I am, I have no problem attracting other men. My DH simply isn't bothered about sex.

'My final point seems a bit clichéd. Most men will sit up and notice if their partner dresses and behaves a bit more sexually, subtle things like a LITTLE bit more cleavage.'
Argh just saw this!! If I hadn't developed a thick skin over the issue already this would read like a smack in the face as these issues already make you feel unattractive and unsexy!!!
Life is definitely not that simple for some coupled

SoddingCupcakes, HelenaDove;

IT'S NOTFOOTBALLS POST. I don't think she mentioned anything about dressing a bit more sexually. Hence the suggestion. The intention is to help, especially by giving an honest man's perspective.

It's nothing to do with blame or fault. Men are visual. And there is nothing like seeing their partner in a slightly different light to give their sexually a jump start. At the moment like any problem it can help to focus on what is in your control; this is in your control.

(I read SoddingCupcakes post regarding her problem, and I'm sorry. It seems very different from Notfootballs)

Then hes a controlling bastard Cupcakes!

jack i lost TEN STONE TEN STONE. So i certainly looked different. It made no difference in the other department though!!!!!!!!

Bigbad we don't have impromptu sex either, I suggest it and hope he says yes. I no longer suggest it regularly for the fear of rejection and/or being seen as a pest.

Then hes a controlling bastard Cupcakes!

The whole "I don't want to touch you but no one else is allowed to either" thing is controlling? I suppose I agree in one respect: it's akin to forcing celibacy upon me, but on the other hand: I could leave, I could break up my family and destroy my kids...

What a choice. So I (reluctantly) choose celibacy over breaking up the family. I would be a BAD mother if I broke up the family over my sexual needs.

But he's hardly husband of the century for forcing celibacy on me, and yes I resent it and yes it is painful as hell. I'm 32, I'm in my prime. I'll never be loved sexually. It brings tears to my eyes.

I've decided that once xmas is over I'm going to lose weight (I'm currently in the 'healthy' BMI range), and keeping losing weight until this sex issue is resolved. He can watch me waste away. This is MY only control. Fuck it. I will go down, but not without a protest.

Cupcakes

Cupcakes don't punish yourself any further, you don't deserve that.

Cupcakes. What you are describing sounds like an eating disorder. Is it really really worth staying in this relationship at the cost of your mental health? My heart goes out to you.

Notfootball is right. Please dont do that to yourself.

Oh my god Jack. OK, I'm sorry because I assume you meant well, and this may come as a shock to you. Women are aware that men like tits. Before one reaches the point of posting on an anonymous internet forum, the average woman has probably tried the 'men like tits' angle.

sodding and tango - well, I feel like to say 'I can sleep with other people and you can't' would be really unfair. So it had to go both ways. I don't think he'd do it - and he says he wouldn't. But I also think, if I really didn't want to have sex with my partner for whatever reason, but I loved them, and wanted to stay with them, then I can't imagine ever telling them that. I would pretend it was more of a general thing. So I felt like maybe there would be a benefit to him being able to see other people too - and if I'm going to expect him to trust me that I want our marriage to work and am just suggesting this as an option to facilitate that, then I need to extend the same trust to him.

That said, I suspect in reality, if I found out he was sleeping with other people, I would be furious, and very, very hurt. Which is another reason why we haven't put it all into practise yet.

Sodding I so feel for you - we're similar ages and I too have the sense of 'holy shit, is this my life forever'. I really don't think you'd be a bad mother to leave because of this. It's so wearing on your self esteem, and especially if you have daughters, a mother lacking in self esteem is not a good thing.

Also, PLEASE don't use starving yourself as a weapon. It's a tempting strategy, especially when you're feeling undesirable and your brain works in the 'thinner = better looking' direction, but I suspect you know full well that it won't help in the long run. And even if it does - do you want to strengthen that part of your brain?

Sodding and football I meant, not myself. That would be mad.

If anyone goes down the affair route please be careful. There are men out there who will think "shes in a sexless marriage so she will be so desperate she will put up with anything"

for what is worth, I am a man with very similar issues to the OP's DH.
I love my wife deeply and we are a great family, rarely disagreeing over much, I enjoying sharing all lifes journey except one, I have a phobia when it comes to sex. I do not use the word phobia lightly, it is a mental 'wrong', or illness that in many ways stops me from being normal. It is completely irrational and unwanted, I would give anything to be a 'normal' man. I ( and we ) have tried many things, from counselling to medication to treatment with a psycho-sexual nurse but none has brought significant change, my problem was wired in my brain as a child and there is no magic pill or prayer that can undo it. Obviously this is just my experience but perhaps the OP DH thinks the same, it must be very difficult for the suffering partner to understand but this is how I feel/think:

I find my wife sexually attractive, I'm even more normal than that, I find many women sexually attractive, the abnormal trigger only fires once ive got my clothes off.

I understand that my condition causes my wife significant pain, I am weighed down with guilt that I am hurting someone I dearly love.

It is very selfish of me to be the way I am, and expect my wife to remain faithful. It still hurts just as much when she has affairs, but with the added battle that I 'shouldn't' feel hurt, I deserve it after all. Except it is not something I have control over, I can't just turn it on and off.

Notfootball, the only solution is the careful and planned dissolution of your relationship, it is the best thing I could do for my wife, to release her, I don't have the strength or courage to let go of someone I deeply love, let alone my worries of what it would do with the kids, it is though, imo, the only answer :( I hope you manage to work things out

There are men out there who will think "shes in a sexless marriage so she will be so desperate she will put up with anything"

Yup. This is true. Got the tshirt. But if it's just consenting sex, does it matter? My fuck-buddy was a chronic liar, but I shrugged it off because I didn't want his mind/emotions/commitment. The fact he lied to everyone (including me) didn't matter because I was only after physical contact.

TheButterHalf that sounds really tough. But I really admire that you've been honest about it and tried to work through it. And I don't think you should be too hard on yourself about not having the strength to leave - it's an incredibly hard thing to do, I'd even say impossible, to leave someone you love out of respect and love for them. It's a decision only your wife can make I think.

Does your wife know you know she has affairs? That must be really hard - I understand what you mean about knowing you 'deserve' it (you don't deserve to be hurt, but I know what you mean) but it still hurting. Is there a way you could make that side of things hurt less?

LastTangoInBognor I love my wife and our children, it is close to impossible, and something I would regret for a very long time but there have to be lines drawn somewhere, and I have crossed a line when I expect another human being to go without a natural human need just because in me that same need causes a very primitive fear response. My wife managed 10 years before the temptation got the better of her, I doubt I would last as long in her place. I don't want to be replaced though, I want to be normal, and that is turning out to be far too long a journey to be even close to reasonable.