"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Lol Chiggers, that made me smile.

He's getting married in the Spring so dare say my invite will be pending reconciliation with the TM as well as a rather large apology to he and his fiancé for ruining Christmas.

Do dearly want to tell him what TM thinks about the state of their fridge but not sure if it's really fair as I do like his fiancé and would t want her doubting her parenting as TM makes me question mine.

DBro doesn't usually get involved with things and I'd not usually hear from him. He rarely needs anything from me and he's not the type to invite me down for tea or for a coffee in fact and I've only seen their DD a handful of times despite living in the same town. With all that TM tells me I've always felt like a third wheel. Of course, TM treats him differently and sees him most days as she has to go and give the child a squeeze everyday. DSis uses TM and they do nice, normal mother/daughter things like going for lunch once a week and having nights in with wine and films - stuff that I've never done but then I hate her too much to entertain the thought anyway.

There are some things that I'll never forgive her for and I'm learning that that's OK and that I don't have to feel guilty for her actions and bad choices.

I just need to fill that hole I suppose and poor DS loves her and although I know his moods will level with not seeing her, bless him he does miss her already

Just had EuroCamp brochure through the post today so am sat with that and book of 1001 days out in the UK to begin planning 2015 trips away... Silver lining is that I no longer need to feel obliges to call her when we're on holiday and can have a totally contact free holiday!!

My dads still alive which is good news. The longer he hangs on the better the prognosis iyswim. Feeling awful that I don't know when I will see him again :(

(Disabled so v v v hard to get up there, without added complication of carer logistics and Ds of course). And then the welcoming committee of course ... Wouldn't be welcome at my parents home, and my mother certainly wouldn't help out in any way, not even looking after Ds, who she professes to adore. Ds was devastated by being so close to his grandparents house yet not able to go there over Christmas :(

I have no idea what to tell him as he stayed a lot with them, as my dad helped out when I had carer gaps, & was going to do half terms and holidays now Ds started school. But my mother did literally nothing when Ds was there, that's a real literal btw! It's my dad Ds has the strong bond with, particularly as he has no good father figure.

Too horrible to think that positive but of Ds life ending forever.

Not to mention that I'm back to having no back up and utterly reliant on carers, who I can't afford as much as I need and my health dips each time carer crisis and am playing fast and loose with my health as 'dips' are risking potentially serious deterioration ...

My dad was coming down tonight to help with Ds for the next few days as no carers. But that was before this awful thing happened to him. It makes me want to cry, and v scared how I'll manage now.

For the first time in many many years my dad was forming a proper relationship with me again, and being there for me, first time in... Forever. And

Oooh Hissy date sounds amazing :)

seza the bile your TM is spewing about your DB/dsil2b, you've no way of knowing if there is any basis of truth, right?

my guess is that it's all BS. designed to either trick you into falling into the trap of telling them, and therefore facing their wrath... OR to create a barrier between you and them.

remember, these people feed on isolating and manipulating their victims.

if she's told you about their misdeeds, imagine what she'd told them about you... hence perhaps the reaction from DB.

the truth will out.

it always does. sometimes it needs a little help, but trust in the truth.

enjoy NC, it's hard at times, but the reward outweighs the blips.

MiscAsst (apologies for the abbreviation :))

my love I don't know what to say, I totally understand your concerns about caring issues etc, and just hope somehow you are able to get someone, somewhere to give you a hand.

I don't envy you, I hate asking for help at the best of times, so understand how hard this will be.

could you rally some friends around to see if they can help short term?

thinking of you

Thanks Hissy :)

I have rather run out of friends to rally, when you can't do normal things or return favours, friends don't want to be friends so much. This is just into the fifth year of me being ill so most have scarpered... And those that haven't helped over Xmas itself.

However I have had today saved by a lovely lovely woman - she's taking Ds with her until later this avo. I thought we would do a play date (her sons the same age), but she's taken Ds and will return later. Yay!!! Ds will have a wonderful time with his best friend and I get to go back to bed til dinner time. I really really appeciate it and I must think of something I can do in return as I want to nurture this friendship rather than tap her for favors! I hate being That Person...

Hello all, dropping in again as yet again I have tried to make nice with my parents and regretted it. I can feel the whole thing sliding towards no contact as every time I see them I feel crap for days and it's just not worth it.

We went round for Christmas on the 28th (were with dp's family for actual Christmas, that was a previous enormous drama). Had to put up with constant pa comments about not seeing them enough. We live 1.5 hours away and don't drive. Then endless questions about why we don't come and stay overnight. Because dp would then have a 1.5 hour commute. Not a good enough reason. My mum felt the need to call me yesterday to tell me she was upset with him for this, because it's not a good enough reason.

We told them we were engaged, after having to yell at my dad to stop him wandering off mid announcement. My dad said nothing, my mum said congratulations but later told me she would tell people we are 'sort of engaged'. (my divorce is not final until February, I am sick of my ex having the power to stop me making plans). Great.

Every time dp leaves a room one of them complains to me about something he has said or done e.g. disagreed with them about anything, had a glass of wine, been too helpful, not helpful enough. Every time we asked for another drink this was met with pa comments about how much we were drinking (they are not teetotal by any stretch, my dad just has to control the booze) Two alcoholic drinks in 6 hours with my parents is NOT enough. We did quizzes for 3 hours, for which my dad has to be the quiz master because he sulks if he doesn't know the answers. I suggested the guardian quiz, got 3 questions in and was interrupted by him stating that nobody cared. And answering a question about kim kardashian by proclaiming her a 'massive slag'. He incessantly refers to women in similar terms, comments on people in the street, made repeated homophobic comments to my bisexual fiance and is a man who if I met in other circumstances I would not want to spend any more time with.

And yet again, I don't know why I am putting up with it, it feels like they haven't done anything quite 'bad enough' to stop seeing them. But I spent most of yesterday in tears, hurt and angry and sad and feeling stupid for being here yet again.

Glabella

Maybe a small part of you thinks that your parents will even now apologise to you for being so crap as parents and people. That never happens though but that may be why you keep going back. for your own self protection though I would say no more visits to them now.

Hissy

Glad to read that your date went well!.

Wrapdress yes, minimizing is something I have experienced. Imho, it goes arm in arm with dismissiveness. It is not to just minimize one's circumstance or event, it is to minimize the person. This relates to creating/maintaining a superior vs. subordinate dynamic and generally has the effect of implying 'shut the f#@k up'.
It is hurtful! Especially about health issues. I hope you are ok.

I learned to share less and less. I mean, if the toxic one cares so little (about me) that anything said to them or even within earshot is poo-pooed then why waste time/breath/brain space sharing with them? It was a soft turning point for me to begin emotional detachment, which cleared the path for a tapering off of involvement and create some boundaries for my self.

Hissy just very happy for you.

Have a safe and happy New Year, everyone. Mr. Band and I don't drink, or go out much, and will probably be asleep by ten.

Glabella, by going back time and again you're essentially continually punishing yourself and you probably know that things won't get any better, but you keep going back in the hope that it may do. When it doesn't you may feel hurt and daft that you put yourself through that yet again. It may be time to go LC for a bit and only by phone so that you don't have to endure their incessant attitude and can make excuses when you've had enough. Whatever you or your DP do, it probably won't be good enough and they always complain about something, so why put yourself through that?

The thing is though, if you were to confront them about their behaviour they could go into huffy/sulking mode and refuse to speak to you (not a bad thing per se), but that may be because toxic people go all ragey/defensive/sulky when being made to face their own failings/faults. It's as if they are childish bullies who are scared of facing the truth about their own behaviour.

FWIW my mum was like that until I blew up at her and told her that I would rarely be in contact unless she stopped bitching about and at me. She soon realised that her little mouse of a DD finally roared and bared teeth (metaphor for taking no shit from her). My motto for situations like these is "Don't let the buggers grind you down". I tend to smile at that when I'm going through tough times with anyone, because it gives me the determination to not let them destroy my happiness.

Anyway Glabella, you're out of their house now and hopefully you'll forget them for a few hours and enjoy a peaceful New Year .

Well folks, I'll wish you all a Happy New Year and I'm off to walk the mad mutts and go to bed (am knackered from being up at stupid O'clock . Have a good'un and I'll chat tomorrow.

mcsantapaws im sorry you're feeling low.
Actually I don't have any helpful answers, sorry. But I hope you keep posting here, it seems like such a supportive, although fast moving, thread.
I am off to bed now.
Peace for the NY to all of you.

Happy New Year, Stately Homers! May 2015 bring us all peace and happiness.

xx

Happy new year all.

May 2015 be better than the last year. For me, and all of you lovely people.

Happy new year, all Stately Homers and Stately Lurkers!

Lots of love to you all

xxx

Ps Good well done you on sending that letter and feeling good about it, your mother's response made me properly lol!

Oh and Hissy, lovely news about your date - Monsieur le Grenouille, oui? (I know that's grammatically impossible, but what the heck)

2015! This is the year I will make my escape.

Happy New Year to everyone.

Hello. I need some advice on dealing with my mother, who drives me insane. She is self-obsessed, controlling, bitchy, passive aggressive and overly defensive. For example, every time she asks a question, and I reply, she will say "I'm only asking!" As though I had answered her in a shorty way. Even when I haven't. This gets my back up so I will then appear irritated, confirming her suspicion that it am difficult and she is misunderstood. I will then see her in the kitchen telling my dad how difficult I am, with pursed lips. He will then be baity with me. And so it goes on.

She will also tick me off publicly, without warning. So the other day, we were having dinner. She didn't want my baby to walk off with good in his hand, so I took it off him. She said "I didn't mean for you to make him cry, that is not relaxing for anyone!", in a baity fashion, then when I tried to explain she sighed as though I were incredibly difficult.

On another occasion, we were putting our coats in lockers and there was no room for mine. I said "it's ok I will wear mine" as it was a bit chilly. She then (bearing in mind this was in a public place, with other parents my age with children, as I have), treated me as though I were a stroppy teenager with an attitude problem and thoroughly embarrassed me. I would also like to point out that she has a very loud voice as she used to be a teacher.

I am quite an easy going person and up until being publicly ticked off by my mother, am rarely in a bad mood. But if course by that point I am, confirming her suspicion that I am awkward and tht she was only trying to help. She has no self awareness. I am not the only person who finds her difficult.

When we are out she is always bossing me around. In a restaurant or at the theatre she will decide I should sit somewhere else "why don't you sit here and talk to X" she will say, when I am perfectly happy where I am - this is always witnessed by several people we don't know as her voice is so loud. In a theatre she will decide I can't see well enough and point out a free seat I should sit in instead.

When she asks me a question, she rarely listens to my response. The question is often a rhetorical question. For example, did you see such a thing she recommended I watch on TV. Knowing I wouldn't have done, as I have small kids and no time, I will start to explain that I have been too tired or busy or whatever and she will 'hmm' over me. Her point in asking is to make it clear that she knows I haven't bothered, if that makes sense!

I have just got off the phone to her where she gave me her annual speech about how empty and lifeless the house is without all the children after Christmas. Her mum used to say his to her she told me (as she does every year). It makes me feel guilty as uncomfortable. So surely it used to make her feel uncomfortable when her mum used to say it. So why does she put me through it every year?!!!

This is is really a request for ways to cope with it I suppose. Or some books that might help me deal with it better so I don't react in the way she expects (wants?!) me to. I need to communicate better with her, or have barriers (I used to rarely share anything about myself when I was a teen. Maybe I should do this again?) so that I can feel a bit more sane after a week in her presence!

Sorry for all the errors. Typing with kids around!

Now I have posted other things keep coming to me, apologies to drip feed. She is also incredibly unreassuring, although I spend a lot of time reassuring her. For example, I recently had my hair cut, about six inches. She didn't comment for three weeks despite seeing me in several occasions. Even my male team leader in his fifties noticed. It was pretty obvious. When commenting she said "you didn't tell me!" As though I had kept it from her. Which she hates - people not telling her even the smallest details about their lives. That was all she said. When she has her hair cut, on the other hand, I have to spend ages admiring it and listening to anecdotes about the goings on at her hairdresser!

Also, three years ago we moved to a bigger house in a less convenient area (we used to live within walking distance of a pleasant but hugely expensive town). Every time I see her, she finds a way to tell me how convenient either her house, my sister'a house or my brother'a house is to shops and how isolating it must be not to be able to walk to a centre or community. This initially had the effect of making me feel quite depressed and as though we had made the wrong decision. It also caused me and my husband to fall out a bit. She is always pointing out convenient local towns and saying how nice it would be to live there as though urging me to force my husband to move. I am fine with where I live now but after she has left, often find myself browsing on rightmove. It is almost as though she doesn't want me to be truly content with the lovely house we have.

Also, a few years ago I had both a miscarriage and an ovarian cyst which almost required surgery. I didn't tell her about either until one day I told her about the cyst at what I thought might be a good time. She didn't say much and has never mentioned it since. Same happened when my son had to have surgery for mild hypospadias. When I told her she just said "is it really necessary to put a baby through an operation for something cosmetic?" And has not mentioned it since besides asking when the op date is (I initially kept from her that we decided to go for it). When I compare this to the conversation I had with his childminder whose son had a testicle removed she said my son would absolutely thank me for having it done in her opinion in a very matter of fact way. My DM is never matter of fact. Always emotional and you have to read between the lines of literally everything she says. I find it exhausting. I have thought about posting on here before but I do essentially have a loving mother and always felt bad. But more than a few days with her and I back to googling counsellors!

Finally (for now!) if she upsets someone she will shake her head and say "I have said the wrong thing, again", or cry. But she clearly always believes it is the other person who has the problem. If she says sorry, it is clear she is only sorry to a point. A few years ago she upset my sister in law by making a remark about how disappointed we would all be that we birthday barbecue would be cancelled, minutes after she had broken her foot (which my DM was at that minute clearly doubtful about the severity of). My sil barely spoke to her a year which while I thought perhaps excessive, could understand why he had been upset as I was there and it sounded insensitive. But my DM couldn't and thereafter wouldn't accept that she had said anything other than an off the cuff unintentional comment that my sil should have got over sooner. I mean, she was really upset that she had upset her but still couldn't see exactly what she had done if that makes sense. It is the same if ever I am irritated by something she has said. I am the one with the problem. So I need to control my reactions to her and vent my irritation elsewhere.

Incidentally I did once call her up to tell her that something she was repeatedly saying (about the size of my daughter, which is normal but bigger than my sister'a small child, which my also small mother kept repeatedly pointing out, as she still does) I would prefer her to stop saying and she took it terribly (though I had tried to explain it in a nice way. I.e I know you don't intend to make me upset but you are doing so I am explaining why) and she just cried, after which my dad called me to have a go at me. Both my parents were cold with me for a month after.

So it is for me to sort how I text rarer than trying to change or talk to her which would be frankly futile even if I had the energy!

Phew. Thanks for reading if anyone did. Will stop posting now!

How I *react (not text, tho that too!)

Welcome sleepingtom I have to go out now but a lot of what you post resonates with me, my mother does a lot of the same. It's ALL about HER, isn't it? Total self absorption. Have you read up about narcissistic personality and histrionic personality? I'll post later when I have more time, just wanted to say hi and welcome you to the thread.

xx

Thank you for the welcome! Yes I have read about NPD. I think she definitely has traits. But then I feel guilty for thinking this! Then I spend more than a few days with her and end up feeling browbeaten and exhausted. And back to square one.

But even my husband thinks she is difficult and self obsessed. And he is pretty calm.

It is good to know you understand the sorts of things my rambling a described and that I am perhaps not just going mad!

Goodness this thread has really moved on!

meerka hi I had a massive migraine the next day and it literally wiped me out and I was still shakey the next day so just stayed away from tabket. I've heard nothing of mil. Not even through a third party. So blizzard . Dp is calling in on bil later where she will be. I've told dp not to be drawn in to anything. She left here very calm so in theory still should be.

hissy how did last nights date go? When I met dp he was an old acquaintance and we both just knew it was for keeps, no games. Good luck for you.

seza I bet it's really hard not to tell your db and sil. I'd be so
tempted!

misc honestly love you need a bloody medal. Fingers crossed for your dad and you x

sleepingtom welcome. Wow she sounds hard work. Some of the things like when you chose to wear your coat and reporting back to your father - I'd be inclined to start laughing. At the situation as if you think it's funny.."oh goodness mother you do over exaggerate, titter..what a love" I did that with my mil a few times and it really took the heat/stress out of the situation.

Or you could start spending less time with her. You will get fab advice on here when the regs appear!

Happy New year to all you're ladies xxx