"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

There's a thread here somewhere about just that question. Wish I'd bookmarked it.

I usually say "it's difficult". (partly becuase it gets a bit confusing to explain biol., adoptive, foster, in law parents and the small array of parent-substitutes. I don't want to have to go into it ... And you'd need to be able to draw a diagram in 5 dimensions to explain 'em all).

Other people rely on 'oh, they're far away" or someone came up with a very good one in some circumstances, "some people aren't very nice. When they have children, those kids have parents who aren't very nice".

Other people find social fluff works well enough "oh they're fine" and move on quick.

Back in the day when I was younger I sometimes used to get people ask me "do you see your dad?" I would just say "No". And if they were rude enough to ask why not, I'd say "Because he's a child molester". Boom, no more questions.

One person has said something to me about my mum since I've been NC with her (4 weeks today) and I just said "I'm not speaking to her at the moment. Long story" then changed the subject.

Most people aren't so rude as to press for an answer. If they are, I tend to just say "That's none of your [fucking] business." (If I'm at work, they get the version without cussing, haha.)

"I'd rather not discuss it" is a perfectly complete statement from you. You don't owe anyone an explanation unless you want to give it.

So sad to see this thread is still going strong. Hello everyone, I haven't been on for a while as I had major problems with my internet connection, and also to be honest life has been bloody hard lately...emotionally, financially, physically...

So, my mother has had 4 or 5 episodes of going into hospital with gastric problems and she had another one at the beginning of this year. Every time it has happened I have been dragged into it despite me living 50 miles away and being in ill health (I have widespread early onset osteoarthritis) but I have been forced to drive down and take her to hospital even though my brother lives 5 mins away from her. Anyway, a few weeks ago I was in bed, as was my little girl, with the winter vomiting bug. My mother rang and demanded I go down as she was ill (every time she has been discharged she has refused to go for the follow ups and/or take the meds prescribed). I told her I was ill and not only that my car is off the road. She told me to get the bus (in fact it would be 3 buses to her house) even though I was constantly vomiting and had diarrhoea. I told her there was no way either of us could make that journey so she told me to get a taxi! I said no, and phoned her GP and asked for a home visit. Instead they sent an ambulance and took her to a&e. She went mad as she is more bothered about the neighbours seeing her than the fact that she was going to be treated. Anyway, that was the last I heard for days. I tried calling the hospital and was told I had been removed from the next of kin list. Me and my brother had a massive falling out over her a year ago (he and his drunken wife launched a massive campaign of abuse against me by text, long story) and either he or his wife (who works at the hospital) or my mother have had my name scratched from her record. So, my brother didn't send me one text, or make one call to let me know how she was, and yet he kept my sister who lives in Oz updated daily. I got my information from the other side of the world!

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago when I had to have a procedure done on my spine. She knew about it, and knew the risks (there is a chance of paralysis) and knew when I was having it. She didn't wish me well before hand, and afterwards, despite me mentioning it several times, she didn't even acknowledge it.

A couple of days ago she started texting my oldest daughter (who lives with her partner and baby) asking when she could come up and visit. This infuriated me because a) she never texts my daughter and b) it's me she would be staying with as my daughter's house isn't big enough. My daughter replied that she free on such and such a day but that she had no idea what I was up to during the week.

Today I get a text from my mother telling me she wants to come up on Wed or Thurs. I text back that that was fine but that my youngest and I (my youngest is home educated) would be out all day Friday as we have already committed to something. She went mad! Told me that there was no point her coming up for such a short time and to forget it! I was gobsmacked. She actually expected me to drop all my plans because she has decided she wants to come up. I told her I couldn't cancel my plans but how about the following week, but to let me know so that I didn't make any plans. She sent back 'no I won't be coming up'. I'm fuming! How dare she expect me to drop my friends and my plans to accommodate her, when she has no interest in me at any other time.

Aaarrgghhh...these first few weeks of the year have been horrendous. I've been ill, we hit financial rock bottom, my son has been diagnosed with PTSD due to the domestic abuse we had at the hands of my ex...and I have gone through it all without the support of my family (birth family I mean, not my own family as they are wonderful). But she still manages to tie me up in knots when she treats me like this. I want to say so much to her but she is a massive narcissist so it would be useless, she would just use it against me instead of taking it on board. I am actually sitting here feeling physically sick because I am so hurt.

Yes, I go for the "we're not in contact at the moment. Long story" and people tend to back off. Amazing how many people actually it turns out have similar parents, can be quite comforting. But on the whole people don't pry past that and if they do, I'd tell them to my their own business.

vivvyen she sounds awful.

It's not always easy to go NC but may I ask why you don't? is she in her final illness?

If it needs saying, you were absolutely right not to just cancel your commitment on the friday. DO you need to consider blocking her number from your daughter's phone? she does not need this stuff, especially if she's likely to start feeling guilty.

It sounds like you're on good terms with your sister in Australia ... was it a coincidence that she moved there or now?

A lot of it comes down to your (reasonable) expectations that she will show care and love for you and respect for you. Sadly the mother you actually have is never going to be like that. Facing that means grieving for what she is and what she could have been and should have been.

Might have asked this before but have you read Toxic parents?

Glad the op went ok.

Hi all, It's my first time in here and I have only read the initial post, hope this is ok.

I am struggling at the moment with a fear of turning into my mother! I don't really feel anything about her anymore and she stopped talking to me over 2 years ago over the birth of my 4th child and the fact I wasn't in the house once when she rang so clearly I was avoiding her! I am quite happy with the lack of contact but occasionally reach out on behalf of the kids as she stopped contact with my whole family when I was 11 and I hated feeling rootless, my oldest at 10 asks occasionally about her but the others don't so the next time I reach out and am ignored will be the last. Haven't seen my dad since I was 11 when I went to the high court to stop contact.

Anyway I worry that I am going to become like her, we have had a rough couple of weeks of bad behaviour recently and I am sick of the sound of my own voice. I think it's pretty normal parenting and behaviour stuff, we spend lots of lovely time together and I am forever telling them how special they are and they seem happy but I can't shake the fear that they will grow up feeling not good enough or unloved like I did. How do you gauge what is normal if you never had it? I know I can't just let the behaviour slide but I am really struggling with guilt over how to deal with them, when DH is here I bounce this stuff off him but he's away till the summer so I'm a bit rudderless at the moment and finding it hard going.

mrsgrey

Walking on eggshells is code in my opinion for living in fear.

You need to cut all contact with all your family of origin; your dad, mother and sister. They are all toxic and bad for you to be anywhere near. The abuse you've suffered is not your fault; it is theirs and theirs alone because it was a huge breech of trust. It is also NOT your fault your parents and sister are like this; you seem to be the scapegoat here for all their inherent ills. Leave this lot to it; they all deserve each other and they are all as bad as each other.

You do not need such people at all in your life; protect yourself and your child (your most precious resource) from their malign influences.

Getting the toxic parents book & following!

Interesting reading isn't it? Quite revealing often.

Hello everyone,

I posted on here a while back and received some brilliant advice.

Advice, I admit, I wasn't willing to really listen to or act upon, at that time. You told me I was in an EA relationship and advised I try and get out. I knew deep down that you were right, but felt too weak to do anything about it.

I have come back on here today though, to let you know I DID IT.

Its been 3 weeks since I told him I no longer wanted to be with him. He has moved out. All of his stuff has gone, I have my space back, I have my sanity back, I feel like me again.

Yes, I have sad days, where I feel heartbroken. But I know I have done the right thing for me and my DS. I know I tried everything in my power to make it work.

It has been unbelievably hard, getting him out of the house and going through the transition. I got stellar advice from a thread I started on MN (and have since deleted due to his stalking), I categorically could not have done it without the support I got from the lovely people posting to me throughout that period.

I finished my counseling, which helped with my childhood / father issues. I don't feel angry anymore. Although I do not think I will ever trust another man again. I don't think I will ever go into a relationship again. Which makes me very sad. Not sure how to deal with that, but for the moment I want to be on my own with my child and concentrate on being happy with that.

Anyway, just wanted to let you all know I am doing great! Never thought I would be able to break free...but I did, and its brilliant.

Thank you

Ahem, as you were! xx

Lovely to hear octopus. It must have taken a lot of courage. Such a hard thing to do.

Hoping you go on from strength to strength and wishing you the best with your son.

Thought I'd not come back to this, but: finally engaging with MH professionals on an honest basis. Doing my best to describe what was done to me as objectively as possible. Apparently, it counts as severe abuse, and caused warning flags to pop up all over.

I honestly thought it wasn't an issue for me that I be believed. Turns out, no, it's massive. I've had to talk to safeguarding people about access of the abusive parent to grandchildren. They want assurances I've spoken clearly and in terms about the potential risk to their kids if they leave them alone there. On the one hand, scary. On the other hand, being believed? Suddenly felt like I was no longer carrying a huge load I'd just not noticed, I'd been carrying it that long.

Giddy to the point that DP (WE GOT BACK TOGETHER!) was concerned I was going into a manic episode.

Still a lot of work to do, but there's a real sense I can take those one-at-a-time steps at a dead run while brandishing an axe and screaming blood-curdling war cries. While completely naked and painted head to foot in woad.

Ahem.

As you were, all.

ezekial it sounds like it's been a fantastic experience to talk to the MH professionals.

Im really pleased that this has gone so well and im even more pleased you're back with your partner

Can I give you a hug? (while you're in an un-woaded, clothed state)

Anyone around?

My mum has sent me an e mail.

I'm not a regular (frequent name changes) but I know your story as it was kicking off when I was going NC with my parents about two years ago. Have you read the email?

G2B

I would delete it without opening it. If you have already read it delete it and do not respond to it at all. Radio silence from you must be maintained. No good will come of responding; she is simply trying to hoover you back in again. Narcissists after all do not always let go of their victims easily.

I would also now block her e-mail address from your e-mail account.

It's quite typically narcissistic. It's titled heridity and starts with a paragraph about how she had life-threatening cholesterol and blood pressure but has been on statins and now isn't in immedaite danger but wants me to know about her father, my DGF and gives some history about him. Because she won't live forever and she wants me to know who I am, where I come from, etc.
Then claims she doesn't know what she did. Says I chose to walk away. Says she did see the DC, went to see them play out in break time the day she left but didn't speak to them cos didn't want to upset them. Cried floods of tears apparently.
Says didn't give her address as she thought i'd send presents back. Wants to send presents for (upcoming) DC birthdays.
Says she's a truthful person and if I can throw away all those years of love and care for me so be it. Says she has never badmouthed DH to anyone.
Funnny thing is DBro has recordings of her ranting about the pair of us in the summer, maybe I should call those in as a favour and send them to her, ha ha ha (joking obviously)

How has it left you feeling? I know when my mother used to try to contact me it always renewed my determination to stay away. It was only when I hadn't heard from them for a while that I used to doubt myself and wonder what the hell had happened, and then she'd email or leave a voicemail and I'd go, oh right, that's why.

You sound completely unsurprised by the content.

G2B,

I would delete and ignore all such witterings from her. I'll play her a very small violin.

(Also she moved without as much as a goodbye or leaving a forwarding address. She also over valued one of your children at the expense of the other). It never fails to astound me how such disordered people rewrite history to suit their own ends.

Certainly do not reply to it; doing that will just let her bother you even more. Its typical hoovering behaviour designed to suck you right back in.
And do as of now block her e-mail address from your inbox!.

Honestly your mother G2B is beneath contempt. You come across on here anyway as much happier without her being around.

She is a very ill person isn't she? I don't even mean necessarily mentally ill. I mean ... she is so far removed from any real acknowledgement of her own behaviour.

I hope you're okay GtB. Very difficult email to receive.

I'm not quite sure about blockign her email address but it's probably well worth setting up a separate folder that new ones get sent into. Sadly she is probably really sad ... but just as sadly, from all you've written over the years, she is not capable of real communication and real self-insight.

atilla speaks an awful lot of sense but I do wonder if you are thinking of keeping a very distant, now and then email contact - 3 times a year or something. What is the right thing to do for you? Stay NC or to have very LC? If you do choose to go LC then I think that you should leave it at least another 2 years. It's only been 8 months or so since she left and that's just not long enough for you to really have found true emotional independence after so many years' conditioning. It takes a very long time to really move far enough on in your own life to be able to approach a parent from the rock of true independence.

And agreed with atilla - you do come over as much, much happier without her.

It went into my junk mail, which I check from time to time. She sent it yesterday. I'm not sure why she's suddenly asking my permission to send presents. It's the usual obsfucation mixed with outright lies. She actually says at one point "You chose to walk away", which is just well, really...Who left the country? I could have sworn it was her?
Part of me is tempted to write back and tell her to cut the crap and stop pretending she doesn't know, that it's tiresome. She left, that was all her. But at the same time it's been so nice these months of radio silence. I've been so at peace and calm.
I wouldn't mind some very anodyne e mails a couple of times a year as Meerka says, but not at the moment and I just can't see how we can get to that point if she won't stop lying and casting me as the villain.
For the moment I am going to do absolutely nothing.

The e mail is soooooo "me, me, me, ME! ME!"

Suggest you tell her she can send presents and leave the email at one single sentance.

She's an old woman, she isn't going to ever change now, if you ever feel ok about contact it'll have to be in a way that doesn't make you feel bad. Ie, in a way where her crap no longer touches you. As I say, i think you need some years yet before you can get to that point.

When you no longer feel the need to actually converse with her and try to get her to acknowledge what has really happened, then you'll be ready. When you can see her ME ME MEness and it doesn't sting or make you feel sad, you just observe it. When you can hear yoruself being cast as the villain and just pull a face, not be hurt. At that point, it would be a kindness to a very troubled old lady. But only at that point. She came too close to wrecking your marriage and sapping the joy from your life and interfering with your son to be in semi-contact before.