"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hurting so much. Haven't told Ds yet. How?

Misc you can get through this. It hurts like nothing else, but you need to take each day at a time, or even each hour if that's what you feel more comfortable with. Whatever it takes to get you through each day with your DS, then that's all that can be expected considering your recent events.

You need to take care of yourself, and if that means you have to force yourself to have a shower/bath/eat, then please do those things. Even if they're all you can manage for yourself.

If you can try and get yourself into a routine, that can ease each day as you then know what is coming next during the day. Other things can be fitted in between when you feel up to it, but please don't neglect yourself and we're here for you if you need someone's ear to bash/vent/talk to etc.

I have to go now, but don't forget that there will always be someone here to talk to if you need it

Hi everyone

I am new to the Stateley Home.
Until recently I always laughed off my father's appalling behaviour as a series of hilarious anecdotes.
I spent some time in therapy and was forced to acknowledge that my childhood was very painful.
We have a wonderful baby, and being a parent has made me acknowledge the huge inadequacies of my parents. It has also given me some empathy towards my mother, because I recognise how hard mothering is, but also anger, because she really really should have left my father.
I have tentatively tried to speak to my mother about my childhood. I do not know how fruitful this will be. I think she will minimise. She is so damaged by her marriage that she does not realise that our family is far from normal or healthy.
Unfortunately I stopped therapy as it was really hard to combine this with a newborn. I am not ready to start therapy again right now, but I don't want to start burying my feelings again.

I am a bit daunted by posting in a public place about my childhood. I am reminding myself that I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Nice to meet you all.

Misc I am very sorry for your loss.
If you need someone to listen, the Samaritans are very good. You can talk to them about anything.

Misc thinking of you, please keep talking to us/someone in RL?

birdssuddenlyappear this is tough stuff, but you are not alone, and are among those that understand and believe you.

Hard to talk. Hurts too much. Don't know how I'm going to get through this. I can't do it again, not after my sister.

Haven't told Ds yet. I have to do it. If I do it tomorrow will it be ok to send him to school on Monday? Or not?

I don't want to let him feel this pain too. I can't protect him from this and its awful.

you will get through this love. you really will.

if I were you, i'd let him to go school, give yourself the free space to grieve while he's away from you. cry it out, scream, rant, whatever you need to.

then when it subsides a bit, work out what you can say to him. it won't be as bad as you think.

Miscellaneous I am so sorry. You'Re right. Its so unfair.
It must be very difficult for you now.
Thinking of you. How can we help?

atilla I've finally been able to catch up.

I hope your husband is coping after his father's death. Never an easy time and if the relationship has been poor, it's just as difficult as if it'd been good. It can't be easy for either of you right now, am hoping that you are weathering it alright together. Take care.

Miscellaneous not sure what to say other than keep on keeping on. Thinking of you and your son.

Hello birds. Congratulations on your baby :)

The whole relationship with your parents, especially your mum, becomes much more in focus when you have a baby. Even when you have reached some peace of mind about a damaged relationship normally, a baby shakes it all up.

Be gentle on yourself, allow yourself to grieve for what should have been and no, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Welcome.

Thanks for asking. I don't know. I don't know anything. You being here helps. Sorry,

Lied to my mum tonight, said Ds wasn't quite asleep so couldn't talk to her. not true. Can't cipe with talking to her. Partly cos she makes it real, partly cos I feel shamed that I feel my whole family has gone now, and yet she's still here.

Haven't told ds yet. Can't bear it. Ordered all books on Amazon and maybe one will help him afterwards.

It's going to destroy him. We have no one else. It's deatroying me. And once I tell him no semblance of normality will be left. I'm snapping at him. He's being difficult cos of no routine and Christmas was awful as my daddy was in hospital far away. I hate myself. Poor Ds. Poor us. Poor me. I'm sorry but poor me. Pathetic,

I'm so sorry, misc. May I offer you a virtual hug?

The only thing I can say is a terrible old platitude... This too shall pass.

I'm not ignoring the very real holes in the fabric of your life - I have quite a few of those holes in my life myself, although not as many as I used to have, and I know how hard it is - but this absolute raw pain and despair will not go on for ever. Even if it feels like it will.

I don't think it's pathetic at all to want to say "poor me" in your situation. I actually think a lot of healing begins with "poor me" and being able to find some real compassion for yourself, just as you would surely find it for someone you loved going through similar.

You truly deserve a big dose of compassion. I know we haven't "spoken" on here before so I'm just some random on the internet, but as others have said on here, you're not alone.

I'm so sorry. Love to you and your DS. xxx

Ps, lying to your mum was a really good move tonight, well done for that small act of self preservation.

So sorry for your loss, Misc.
I know I can't do anything, but I am thinking of you.
Xxx

hey, back from my trip away to stay with friend/maybe more/but definitely good friend and have just a few days before we go away again for our winter sunshine (not generally decadent - been a couple of years i think since we had a proper holiday)

so sorry to hear of bereavements difficult times.

can only do a quick hit and run as my house is a state and i have to try and unpack, do washing, tidy up and pack again on quite a tight turnaround and i have zero oompf as i think both ds and i are feeling the strangeness of being back home just the two of us again. it was actually lovely getting out of here and having such nice easy company.

not the time to talk about issues though when people are going through so much. again - really sorry for losses.

I dont post here regularly but I do follow because of my own situation which has left me totally alone of biological family that I was born with.

I wanted to just come on to add to the support for you Misc and send you warmth and strength with the having to face and progress through your grief with your DS. I don't know if it helps to know many others struggle on terribly alone too familyless? and its a tough one whether is better to have no family at all, or contact with toxics to maintain some kind of sense of family. I've had both, and its all lonely!

Warmest wishes for such sad time for you both. Its good to see so many supporting each other here.

Birds - our family minimises my DFs behaviour and it's only in the last 5 years or so I've started to realise the damage he has done. You'll have a lot on your plate with a newborn so don't beat yourself up.

My Parents are divorced now and have been since my early 20s so I can talk pretty freely about DF and she has told me lots of awful stories about him. She is in total support. When I had my first DD, it brought up all sorts of bad feeling towards my Dm, she should have looked after us, protected us, left him etc etc. I won't lie, it took quite a few years to get past all that and I've worked through all my issues now. My dm was a victim, ground down and scared.

I have recently gone NC with DF and hes behaved appallingly. Luckily I live a long way from him so I can just cut him out.

our family makes excuses for DFs behaviour. It really helps if DM has left him to it! Helps the DCs belief building about how their world should be and with the feeling supported.

I had the same about how DM should have looked after us and protected us, and left him, and I understand the dynamics of why it can happen the way it does/did then for me. Sadly it doesn't alter that she is a massive problem too. Maybe the difference is that my DM wasn't scared, wasn't prepared to put up with it for herself but blamed the DC (us) for it instead.

I wish it were that way for me that she wasn't also the problem too..

My sister used to be the heart of the family (& golden child) , shielding me from a lot of the horror and cruelty. Then she died. Then my dad was the only one left between me and the person who is cruel, mad and hates me. Now he's dead. I'm left with her. No one would be better.

I hurt in all senses today. Ripped muscles on shoulder and neck from the silent screaming.

misc, I'm so sorry that you have lost your father. I am afraid that I don't know your background with your mother, but I think it sounds very sensible to keep her at arms length, certainly whilst you are feeling so raw. Think of yourself and your DS and try to protect yourself. if you need to communicate about practicalities with your mother is there a less emotional way to do so, like writing or via an intermediary?
I'm so sorry that you have lost your father and your cruel mother remains- it is utterly utterly unfair. Do you have friends or extended family to support you in RL?
Sorry if I have misunderstood your situation, I have just joined this thread. I didn't want to see your post un responded to.

santa, I am glad that your relationship with your DM has improved by working through your disappointment. At the moment I get along with my mother, chatting pleasantly, but there is zero depth or emotion to our conversations, and there are so many topics that we avoid. A few times I have tried to bring them up and she has tried to dodge or minimise. I think it would be helpful to talk more, but I have such a build up of anger and resentment that the thought of showing her my emotions actually makes me feel physically repulsed.

My mother had a happy family growing up, her siblings are all well adjusted, why did she go along with our odd, unhappy, unhealthy family life when she knew better?

Last night I wrote a letter as if written to my mother, outlining the criticisms I have about our family. They were mainly about my father, but other things too. I am not going to send this letter, but I am going to write an actual letter to her quite soon.

I am also going to say or send something to my father, even if it causes problems for me, because I can't continue this pretended polite indifference to him. I found it excruciating at Christmas. Usually he largely keeps to himself, but at Christmas he started to show an interest in my daughter,, and I was grumpy with DH for days after as it was on my mind. When she is older I do not want her picking up on this tension and seeing me scared to confront him.

Mostly I am scared of revealing that I actually cared about my parents and childhood, as I feigned indifference for so long as a survival mechanism that I almost believe it myself, and I started to see caring as a weakness. However now I have realised that I have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, in fact I should be proud of my creating a happier life for myself.

i can understand that birds - teflon coating is what i called it and was very much my survival mechanism for a long while and it felt awfully weak and like i'd failed when i let anything show or get through that.

Well, after the mess that was Christmas, going to work this morning with the DS we walked past DBro's DP's GM with DBro & DP's DD - "morning GM's name" I say - she just smiled a tight smile and walked on by. The smile was at me, though it seemed that if she said the words "good morning" or indeed any words to me, she would be betraying her GD, her GD's DP and of course, her GD's DP's DM who is totally not to blame for me ruining Christmas.

Then I noticed that my name is quite identifying and so did a swift NC before commenting this morning. I'm sure you'll know who I am for I am the Grinch that stole Christmas but didn't afterall because they all had a super time without me and my very naughty DS.

Just been to tell school as DS has been made sad by the NC with his DGM, for to him, she's great (as every time she gives him any boundaries it is because his evil mother has told her to tell him). 2015 is going to be a good year, but I've got to get through January first.

Good morning all come and join me for morning coffee sorry I scoffed all the cake before bed at 2.30am last night

Birds

I would still write the letters to both parents but under no circumstances should these be sent. Either one or both of them could turn your words against you all too easily and the resulting fallout on you could really be awful. They won't take any notice of what you write them and they could deny it all. That could make you feel 1000 times worse, its another form of death by 1000 cuts.

Can you instead bow out fro both their lives without fanfare and just cutting all forms of contact over time.

It is indeed to your credit that you have created a good life for yourself, the best revenge here is indeed living well.