Selling my soul to the devil....

[Somethingtodo]

My MIL is a problem drinker and now at 78 she has a whole host of serious alcohol related health issues. Most serious is alcoholic neuropathy - which is where the nerves in your limbs dysfunction and her mobilty is serverly limited and in rapid decline. She is more or less house bound now. I also think that she has the beginnings of alcohol dementia as she repeats the same negative stories on a loop and gets simple things wrong frequently. I have recently lost my job due to ill health and want to spend a year or so at home recovering and being around for my 4 kids who are in the middle of A levels GCSEs 11+ etc. one option to achieve this financially is to covert part of our house to an annex for MIL and then rent out her house which would contribute to our mortgage. Once we reach the end of the road - her house would get get sold and proceeds split between sil and dh. If we dont do this she will be in a home v shortly and that is not what anyone wants - and to be blunt it would erode any modest inheritance. So this would only be a finacial decision on our part - but it would provide a window of opportunity to be at home to support my children.....so would I be selling my soul to the devil.

I agree with dirtybadger. We live in a similar arrangement with my 86 year old DM, who is in the early stages of dementia but otherwise quite healthy. I too asked for advice and opinions from MN before we all moved in together, and the responses were unanimously and unequivocally negative. Some posters even suggested DM was being actively abusive in wishing to live with us instead of choosing to go into an institution, that she was being selfish and manipulative and our family life would become a nightmare.

That was five and a half years ago. We have all been very happy living together. I have been able to return to full time education and set up a home-run business during this time. It's a hell of a lot easier taking care of her here than being terrified she would have a fall while she was living on her own 120 miles away from us. She will stay here in her own home with carers coming in when necessary for as long as possible.

Dementia is an extremely unpredictable disease and it sounds as if your MIL's physical ailments will cause her health to fail long before the dementia becomes unmanageable. If her mobility is severely limited it's highly unlikely she will be able to do her own shopping when she is living with you. You will be able to limit her access to alcohol. Provided you are clear in your mind that she will probably have to be cared for elsewhere at some point and you are prepared mentally and financially for that eventuality, I can't see why you shouldn't go ahead with your plans. You sound like a very loving DIL!

I would strongly recommend that see a solicitor before you pool resources this way. You must make sure she has a) made a will and b) you set up a Lasting Power of Attorney You need to do this ASAP, before she loses her ability to make decisions for herself, and TBH you should be doing this anyway because you are already very involved in her care.

don't do it.
Alcoholics are totally selfish.
I note your DH is terrified about his mother going into a home - so expects you to care for her? It's HIS mother.

Judging from my friend's alcoholic parents they sit and drink and do nothing. You'll end up as a skivvy, even before her mental and physical faculties fail.

Excuse my asking, but how does she obtain all this drink? And would you be prepared to go and buy it for her once she was under your aegis and dependent on you to shop for her? You would be in a position of enabler in a way.

I am a nurse and I have been a carer for my terminally ill husband and for my grandma who came to live with me with dementia.

For my grandma I did use carers once a day but this gets expensive very quickly. There are also other things to consider, I had to have my gas disconnected. Put the kettle in a locked draw and have my taps and oven adapted so she couldn't open them. This might not seem like much but then you have to go round the rest of the house and make it safe.

It's doable but incredibly hard. Harder than having a newborn.

OP - don't do it to your DCs! My parents took in my nana when she had dementia, it was hard work and I can't imagine trying to study for A levels and GCSEs in the middle of that.

also, her health that was deteriating, with regular healthy meals, being kept clean and taken to medical appointments and reminded to take her medicines, Nana's health improved. She lived with my parents for 3 years, then she had problems iwth her knees that meant she needed lifting (in and out of bed, on and off toliets, couldn't do stairs etc) and went in a home. She lasted another 7 years and by that point, all but £20k of her money had gone. That included the sale of a large house and savings.

OP, I am a Dementia Leader and manage a team of care staff who work with people with dementia. The one thing to bear in mind is that "Dementia" is an umbrella word for all sorts of conditions and that each person is affected individually. With adequate support many people live well with dementia ( see article in Observer last Sunday) and if your MiL were to stop drinking her condition might remain quite stable. I'm concerned with some of the comments on here, the word "wandering" should never be used by anyone working in care, all walking is with a purpose. Not knowing the time of day and "sundowning" are specific traits for particular types of dementia. If you would like good impartial advice I'd suggest you contact the Alzheimer's Society ( they will help you regardless of the type of dementia) they can probably introduce you to some other family carers and some people with dementia which could help you make up your mind.

Although your MIL could live for many years, it is also possible that her life changes more quickly than you expected. When my dm was elderly and ill (and would have hated to go into a care home) we started making arrangements for her to live with us. By the time we had made the decision, consulted with solicitors and family, got architect's drawings, planning permission etc and started on the building work..... her conditions had deteriorated hugely and our annexe and our hopes of caring for her were wildly unsuitable.

I dont know that she has dementia - just a few incidents that could be "senior moments" but I would imagine she is heading that way. We do all her shopping now - as she can hardly walk. She has a cleaner one day a week who "takes her out to help with more shopping (unspecified) - I imagine this is when the wine is purchased. My FIL who was a bed ridden alcoholic still managed to get hold of a bottle of whiskey a day by calling a cab company to come round, sent them off with his cashpoint card to take cash out to buy whiskey around the corner and bring it to him. They could get in as he gave them the access code for the door meant for the carers. We are not interested in fighting her drink issues. We had a lifetime of this with FIL and it gets nowhere. She does not consider herself to have a problem - she would hit the roof if anyone suggested it. It is the elephant in the room. It is never mentioned at any of her GP or Hosp appts - surely they must know?

Thankyou higgle - I will look into this. Do you know if alcohol related dementia is specifically worse than the average dementia? Also I would imagine she might forget to drink if she was confused. At this point in time it is the alcoholic neuropathy that concerns me most. She shuffles cant do steps has fallen and is more or less housebound already - I dont know how quickly this progresses, especially as she continues to drink heavily, but i expect her to be in a wheelchair in the not too distant future.

Its difficult enough caring for a parent who has dementia let alone such a person who additionally is an alcoholic.

Her mind and body are failing due to chronic alcoholism.

The hospital staff likely are all too aware she is an alcoholic but they know as well as you do that you cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped. She is after all an adult.

The fact that she considers herself not to have a drink problem is also very telling of her being an alcoholic in denial. Her late DH I imagine acted very much the same. I doubt very much whether she will ever stop drinking to be honest with you.

Why has she seemingly been left to you to deal with?. Your DH may well not want his mother to go into a care home but that's not the point. Its HIS mother. He seemingly wants you to carry the can for him.

You do enough as it is, you do not need to bust your guts doing more. Your own health is currently poor and you and your family must come first now, your MIL will not help your recovery but will further hinder it.

Don't do it.
Especially, to your dc.
She could live for years, and may well get much worse.
Money isn't everything.

You also need to ask yourself...are you really prepared to wipe this woman's bottom when the time comes?
Because it will.
I think a care home is the best for both her and you and your family.

If she hasn't been diagnosed with dementia, I would not assume she has it. Korsakoff's is a very significant condition and, as she is still drinking, it would most likely progress.

I have worked clinically with these patients and also my mother was an alcoholic when I was growing up. It is very grim. The physical and verbal violence, the risky behaviour, the lack of self-care.

I don't think you should be tied by cultural expectations. If your husband doesn't want her to go into care, then he should give up work and become her carer. You are in poor health, plus you have four teenage children. Please don't be a martyr

I have looked up korsakoff - i dont think she has this tho she was having injections into her stomach (thiamine?) and had to have a pint of blood removed every month - too many red blood cells. She is not violent or aggressive - relavtively placid bit deluded and often passive aggressive

Don't do it. It has disaster written all over it.

Long time lurker but felt that I had to share my own experience here. My Grandmother (Mum’s Mum) lived with us and eventually she sadly developed dimentia . It was very gradual to start with (or we were slow realising) but once it was obvious it accelerated quite quickly to the stage where she wandered about the house ‘lost’ at night and she got confused and (understandably) frustrated about many things. That in itself wasn’t too big a deal but of course it progressed and sadly, the incontinence started soon after.

Before I say any more, I feel I have to explain how cool my Gran was - she was widowed during the Second World War when my Mum was just a toddler and she raised my Mum and her older brother on her own, she was an amazing lady and the best Grannie I could have had and seeing her brought so low was devastating to all of us, but especially to my Mum.

Gran would mess her bed, I would lift her out of it and carry her to the bath, bathe, dry and talc her and pop her into a fresh nightie while Mum stripped and changed the bed. Gran would be back in her bed for 5 or 10 minutes and she would have another accident. This went on for several years with no help or outside assistance whatsoever. Mum was exhausted with it all and ended up having a bit of a breakdown and I was supposed to be studying for my exams but Gran needed us 24/7.

I loved my Gran (still do) but latterly she didn’t even recognise me, she was the most mild mannered lady but she used to batter me in the face with her fists when I’d be trying to bathe her… because by this time she did not know who I was and thought she was being molested by a stranger.

I still feel like I'm betraying Gran by sharing this but I see that the OP has children of exam age too and I see similarities with my situation all those years ago.

for KendalM. Clearly a very loving family.

Thank-you Kendal for sharing your very personal and bitter sweet experience. I know if it was my own lovely Mum - I would not have any reservations - as she/we did it for her Mum (as I described above) sadly I dont have this luxury as we lost her at 62 to cancer 3 years ago....but my MIL is an alcoholic....her current health status/disability is self inflicted - she knows that the only way to halt the deterioration is to stop drinking. She refuses/is unable to do so - and is intent on drinking herself into a wheelchair at least. I dont know if she has or will develop dementia.

OP: It's not just the dementia or the incontinence with elderly alcoholics. My Mum is a recovering alcoholic but was a few weeks from death at one time. She had bad ascites and had to have the fluid from her abdomen drained several times. 16 litres on one occasion. There's the shakes. There's the not being able to eat properly and the being sick after a mouthful of food. The thiamine injections, the albumen drip because the liver can't manufacture albumen for cell walls. The strange paranoia and/or hallucinations. The falls. Not just the double incontinence, the smell is to be believed. Not to put too fine a point on it, there's a whole smell about the alcoholic. She's now stable, but she also has chronic kidney disease so is being monitored for that.

Mum is still at home, but for a long time had carers in twice a day. It was very expensive, despite the council putting Mum in the top band for financial assistance. My siblings and I have had to accept that although she has stopped drinking, she won't do anything to help herself stay healthy. So we just help her as much as we can and keep our mouths shut. It has been a very exhausting time both physically and emotionally for us.

A big difficulty is, if it is deemed that she is unsafe in your house for whatever reason the authorities could enforce that she goes into a care home and her house would need to be sold (and any capital of hers put into your property). Take a look at the mental capacity act. I have seen many people have a loved one come and live with them with the intention of them never going into long term care but unfortunately some people are too unwell to be cared for at home.

Thank-you Lemony...I am so sorry to hear your story - what a waste that she has stopped drinking at such a late stage. However your story has given me a reality check....as even if the dementia doesnt develop we will still be dealing with the impact of alcoholism. We have been thru this with FIL - who was in a much much worse state than she is now - and only died due to a random bleed....otherwise he would be still here as - bed ridden old man pissing, shitting and vomiting 24/7.

My MIL also has ascites - though they have not been drained. We also live with the cloying smell which is known as"fetor hepaticus" - and described as a "distinctive sweet faecal smell" - caused by the decaying liver.

No we cant do this...I am shrouded in FOG with this decision - as I know that I cant do /dont want to do this for my MIL - but would move a mountain to have my own lovely Mum back to do it for her.

It's a real tough one. My Mum looked after her mum (who, incidentally, had the same issues). My gran eventually died of an abscess on the liver (amongst other cirrhosis-related things). I did (not very much) of the cleaning up and taking my gran to the loo. Funnily, my gran was still lovely to me and allowed me to feed her when she had been taken into hospital. It was only the day before she died that she snapped at me that she didn't want to eat "that rubbish" (tapioca, I think it was).

I have no doubt that the days/months ahead are going to be very, very tough for you all. But really, you cannot look after your own little family and look after another (to all intents and purposes) big baby 24/7.

Stay strong. The crux of the matter is that you have children who need you and (I know this may sound rather drama-llama) are at such important stages of their education etc. The disruption would be intense and may be detrimental to them. Your MIL could turn her situation 180 and improve if she stopped drinking. But she either cannot/will not. She is an adult and has made her choices. Your children have not.

Oh, thanks for naming "that smell". I still don't like opening my mum's front door because her house smells of it. She hasn't drunk alcohol for over 3 years now.....

Magpie that is a good point that I had not appreciated. Lemony you are right my children have not made their choices and I should not compromise. If she stays in her own home as long as possible even though it will still involve us toing and froing and doing everything - at least it is still not under their noses to distress them -- and we should carefully consider how much time we allow to be drained from our family to support her.

Given the circumstances you describe, I really don't think you should have her live with you. She already has complex needs which are almost guaranteed to get worse and will put a huge strain on you and your family.

Thanks everyone for helping me see thru the FOG to what would be a catastrophic situation. I really need to get a grip on my boundaries sometimes.