Friendship traumas!

[Dotty342kids]

So, basic info is that I've been friends with a group of women since our children were toddlers (they're now all yr 6/7), so quite a while!
There are five of us and, as you do when the kids are small, we used to meet up quite often and socialise as a group with our DH's when possible too.
There's always been tension between one member of the group and I, which I never found the reason for or understood, so it always made for an odd dynamic and so meet ups would sometimes happen where one or other of us wasn't there, to try and avoid awkwardness. As she has a less full on job, and a DH who's always around, whereas my career is quite full on and my DH is away a lot, that tended to mean I was the one left out, more than her. A bit hurtful but nothing I could do about it.
Time seems to have resolved whatever the issue was, to some extent, and when we're together in the group now it's perfectly fine and she's very friendly (but never outside of the group).
In the last year or two there have been a small number of weekends away, with DH's. We were invited to the first one, but I had to say no as we had no childcare and what childcare we do have (my mum) I try not to "overuse" as we use that when we want to do stuff as a couple or family. Family and couple time is really precious to us due to DH being away a lot.
Anyway, to get to the point I've just been told by one of the group, that she's going away, with all the other women, on a girls' weekend the weekend after next, and there's another planned for January. I've not been asked on this, or told about it. She wanted to tell me as didn't feel it was right that I know nothing about it as that'd really be hurtful to me.
Apparently everyone else in the group says I won't mind at all as I "like to do things with my other friends"! I can't see how that's relevant at all as the only reason I've said no before, was due to childcare issues, which wouldn't be the case with a "girls" weekend, and besides, they all have other friends and it doesn't seem to be stopping them from going on this weekend.
I can't deny that I'm really bloody hurt by this. What makes it worse is that we were all together for what I thought was, a really nice evening only last Saturday. And we've got a Christmas outing planned for December (couples). Yet in between that, there's this girls' weekend that no-one even thought to invite me to.
Even if they thought I'd say no, surely it would have been nice to mention it or see if I was able to go?
I feel really angry and hurt by this but am not sure what to do. Do I smile nicely and go to the Christmas outing, knowing that they've left me out of one weekend and are busy planning the next? Or do I speak to them and let them know how hurt I am? Frankly, even if I did that, and they then invited me, I'm not sure I'd feel able to do and spend a weekend with them after this.

Any advice please MN'ers

Gaaawd sounds like my old nct group. They treated me the same but actually kept inviting me and at the meals deliberately pushed me to the end of the table. Only one lady noticed this and stuck up for me but in the end i stopped going and found better friends.

Oh, your kindness has really meant so much to me. You and DH are keeping me sane through this

Irene it's a fair point that you make, and no, I have no issue with friends of mine not including me in every single thing, that's fine. It's just with this particular group, we've always tended to do things as a group and it's also the secrecy aspect that has really hurt me. There have been other weekends involving all couples, that we've not been invited on, and whilst it's been quite hurtful, at least I've known about them and therefore been able to be part of conversations about it in the lead up to them. It's knowing that they're all secretly planning, and then talking about things afterwards, specifically excluding me, that I find really two faced.
I too wish that someone had stuck up for me. They all have this thing about "not getting involved" or "it's up to the organising person to decide who does or doesn't come" which to be honest, I think is a bit rubbish and I like to think that if I was part of a group and decisions were being made that I thought were mean, that I'd challenge them but there you go. We don't all work the same way.

Have confirmed to the good friend (who's co-ordinating the Christmas outing) that we're not going. Also told the one I spoke to last night on the phone that we weren't sure if we'd go. Not sure now whether to just let that news filter out to the others or if I should be proactive in sending them a text. I thought something along the lines of "I've been sad to find out this week that my friendship with you all isn't what I thought it was so DH and I won't be coming to the Christmas party. Hope you all have a good festive season"
What do you think? Should I? Is there a better way of saying it? I live in a very small town and our kids are all still friendly so need to not burn too many bridges by saying what I might really like to say

Really sorry to hear this. All I can say is that these women are still acting like teenagers and Im afraid it seems to make people feel better about themselves by excluding someone. I wonder if they also feel jealous of you having a career or some other jealousy but in my experience this kind of behaviour is motivated by envy sadly. It isn't your fault. As someone who burnt her bridges its not been the easiest ride with children at the same school etc but Im araid Im not the sort of person who can pretend and go along with things. I suspect you are not either from what you have said. Im too old for falseness and nonsense now, lol!!I think I wouldn't say anymore-just leave it and see if she contacts you-and decide with your DH if you want to go or not. I wouldn't say what you really want to say but just say that you are a bit hurt by it all and need a bit of time out (if you decide not to go). Then after christmas you can decide if you want to meet up again etc

Thanks Laura. I certainly think jealousy has played a part with "the one who doesn't like me". Years and years ago, I remember one conversation, had after she'd radiated silent anger at me for what felt like months, where she said that she though I had "the perfect life"! Ha, at this stage I was struggling with two pre schoolers and things were far from perfect, but I did accept that I was very good at putting on an "I'm coping" front. Had she ever taken the time to really talk to me though, she'd have soon found out that wasn't really the case. So for her, yes, maybe that's a small part of it.

Like you, I'm not the type really to forgive, forget and smile and pretend it's all ok. Bizarrely I just had a text from "she who doesn't like me" about possible lift sharing for something our kids are doing, ending with the usual xxx. Smiling assassin springs to mind

I am sorry that this has happened to you OP, it is rubbish! I would NOT send a text like that to the friendship group, it puts you firmly on the outside and suggests that they are all complicit in this which may not be the case at all. I would take that text as your 'farewell' even if I felt I was blameless

x-post, sorry!

mmm when they want something........I would just be unavailable but pleasant and polite. Leaves the door open for you but don't invest anymore emotional energy. Its all so draining. keep that for the people who are your real friends

Hmm, good point Queen. Although this makes me want to put myself on the outside, to be honest. At least I can't get hurt again there

Please arrange a lift share with another friend - and then tell her you're sorted.

Sorry this has happened - pretty pathetic friends though tbh. Good advice from Laura.

My DS isn't actually doing the same thing as her DS so could legitimately say "thanks but no".
I suspect you're all right, that calm, cool friendliness is the way to go. Would soooooo love to say what I really think to "the one who doesn't like me" though. I have spent a large proportion of the last 24hrs practising scathing conversations with her in my head
I accept though, that in reality they probably wouldn't go half as well as they do in my head, so probably best to leave them there!

Bow out gracefully without a scene, you can guarantee the ones who aren't party to pushing you out will see them for what they are eventually and you will be the more respected one for how you dealt with it.

Totally agree with keeping the scathing conversations in your head. Even if you're justified in saying such things it will make day to day contact more difficult afterwards.

I have twice been in a position in friendship groups where I have watched one friend being "forgotten"/excluded/left out.

The first was where I knew one person just didn't really take to another, not a dislike, just not her "type". Occasionally we would arrive at her house, ask if ** was coming, and she'd say oh, couldn't reach her/forgot to ask/left it too late. I always felt uncomfortable as the group was large enough to absorb various types, but she obviously didn't feel this way. Whole group slowly drifted apart so that was the solution there !

Second time around one group member would just occasionally decide that x wouldn't like a certain activity or might find it a bit too expensive, and various other reasons. She is very organised and x is not. I think she just didn't like waiting for replies to things, or having somebody mess with her plans.

I said to the group that I didn't feel comfortable with not asking her directly, and that we shouldn't decide on her behalf. There was a mixed response. I now just always mention to her whatever I know we're planning as a group. It did shake my faith in the friendships for a while, but I guess the teenager in the playground is always lurking in some people.

You look to have dealt with your situation very well, it's so upsetting I really feel for you. Cool calm friendliness sounds great. Now you've said something you'll just have to see how things develop. The ones who are meant to be your friends will stick with you. Perhaps it will be more a set of individual friends in the future, not so much the group.

OP, poor you .

Honestly, it never ceases to amaze me how supposedly mature women can act like hormonal teenagers. The behaviour you have experienced is pathetic. You are clearly above that.

I wouldn't bother cutting anyone off or explaining why you won't be coming to the Xmas party. I would just politely decline the invitation and every invitation thereafter but be all pleasant and smiles if you ever do bump into them. Water off a duck's back.

I think the really important thing in these types of situation is to refocus on friends that would not treat you like that; not become oversensitive; not worry about any of it one more jot - because I think this is the really potentially damaging aspect (the sadness and worry that ensues from bad treatment/bullying) and you are really better than that. Some people are shit. You are not. Don't let them bring you down.

Best wishes x

Thanks nicenew and it sounds like you've been really kind and inclusive in your friendship group Good to know there are people like you out there too.

And Sandy it really helps to hear people encouraging me to focus on the positive and not let it all drag me down. I'm hoping that, when I'm not as involved with this group, that I'll feel better off out of it and enjoy not having to second guess or make things alright with "the one who doesn't like me". Life's too short eh?

Sorry to hear you've been through this Dotty. I was in a similar group and watched people being left out and I never did like it. I tried to be inclusive myself. I always think that in a large group dynamic, if you allow one person to start picking and choosing then it just causes problems. I tried saying something a few times but it was always brushed off and then it was my turn to be excluded. I'm totally out of it now and although it really stings sometimes, I'm generally much happier and have much more genuine friends. I never did like feeling ashamed of the way my "friends" behaved and am glad to be free of that. The thing that hurts the most is that no-one stood up for me, but I try to remind myself that none of them were real friends. I cba with that kind of teenage foolishness.

I know it must really hurt now but you're very brave to have had that conversation, well done you!

Hand holding here OP. Been there (sort of am at the moment). Dreadful sick feeling in stomach when people you have treated generously and invited to things you gradually realise are excluding you and theres nothing you can do about it.

Utterly agree with Sandy. Use it as an opportunity to make an effort with other people - invite a slightly random couple to dinner. Join other things. Be open and cheerful. Don't let their exclusion cause you to question yourself its not you. And most difficult of all do as Sandy says in her last paragraph:

"I think the really important thing in these types of situation is to refocus on friends that would not treat you like that; not become oversensitive; not worry about any of it one more jot - because I think this is the really potentially damaging aspect (the sadness and worry that ensues from bad treatment/bullying) and you are really better than that. Some people are shit. You are not. Don't let them bring you down. "

I didn't like to mention jealousy being the root of things as that can sound pretentious / cop out but sadly it can be the root of all evil.

The dynamic changed with my 'friends' when I married DH - we had a large wedding with lots of trimmings paid for by my parents & things went downhill with them on the run up to my wedding. The excluding me actually began when they started arranging nights at each other's houses while I was on honeymoon & I was never invited to any when we returned. I never rubbed any bodies face in anything & rarely discussed wedding details with anyone but DH & our patents but apparently this made me a bridzilla. It hurts to know they all bonded more & ganged up on me from what was one of the happiest days of my life.

We are moving house next year - we bought a derelict bungalow to rennovate. We can afford to stay in our current house because I had cancer last yr & my life insurance paid out. This £ also let us buy a new car. these people are saying my parents have bankrolled this - nothing further from the truth. But my real friends know the truth & were there for me so that's all that matters. I would love to tell them to walk in my shoes this time last yr - cancer & fertility treatment - but it would only be more gossip for them.

I still get down days & sometimes I don't even want to go up the town incase I bump into them - my confidence has been eroded badly. Don't let this happen you OP!

Oh Sasasi that sounds absolutely horrible and even worse that they did that at time when they should have been happy for you and making every effort to make you feel great! What vile people. You are right to steer well clear now. And great that some positive has come out of the horror of a cancer diagnosis for you and your DH.
kerala1, do you want to tell us what's going on? Maybe we can help you too? And yes, am going to be open and cheerful and refuse to get sucked back in to it all.
Alma you sound like a very nice person too, good for you for putting your neck on the line to stand up to the group, just sad that it meant you got pushed out too

AH nice to hear that some people have stuck up for others. I think when it happened to me that was the worst thing too; that NOON else stuck up for me. I didn't want any side taking, I just wanted someone to say something/ show they had my back as thats what I would always do with a good friend. I actually think theres very few people in life we can call good friends and thats why when you get them they are the people to put your efforts into x

Yes, coming to realise its quality not quantity Laura.

Just realised that a few of us (friend A, friend B and me) in a large group were being super inclusive and careful to invite everyone to things so no one was left out, but actually 2 other couples weren't and were happily accepting all our invitations whilst inviting others, but never actually us A, B and C, to things. I realised one couple had been to ours 5 times, said how lovely to be our friends etc yet never hosted us once. Obviously they can invite who they like but have felt quite hurt as I explained to myself that they don't host but found out they do - just not us! I have resolved to stop asking them to things as have the other "inviters".

Just listened to Dire Straits "why worry" and invited a couple I know quite well but not part of "the group" out on Saturday night they are keen so feel better!

So the friend who told you can't risk saying anything in case she's the next to be left out?

You're better out if it! That's just horrid.

Hurts though, when people you thought were your friends aren't actually your friends (((hug)))

She who can't be named isn't called Wendy is she?

Oh what a horrible thing to find out Kerala1, you're definitely better off without the couple in question. In fact that very same thing happened in our group. "the one who doesn't like me" was always included in invites to our house, yet not once were we as a couple, or me individually, invited to anything at hers, or that she organised. Whereas she'd invite everyone else. Vile, manipulative and it's actually bullying behaviour, to exclude certain individuals.
Unfortunately people like this are very good at being smiley, friendly, everyone's "friend" so unless you're on the receiving end of it, no one can see it. I know that even the member of the group that I'll continue to be friends with thinks I'm paranoid and overreacting in my views on her. Thank goodness my DH can see it and knows I'm not

And no springy, she's not a Wendy

I tell you what, you've those four close friends to fall back on, at least.

Let them get on with it. Who'd want to spend time with people with values like that. yuk.

(yy I know it hurts (((hug))) )

Dotty I really think you have made the right decision. It's always hard when you find out things about people you thought are your friends.

In your place, I would definitely detach myself from the group and be smiley, but in a rush and with no time to chat when I saw them out and about.

Yes, I think that's the plan. Smile, be friendly but refuse any social invitations. If they ask why or bring up what's happened, my response will be along the lines of "I'd rather spend time with genuine friends, but thanks"