I don't know what to do and would value your comments please

[anorak]

My best friend has always been very opinionated and forceful, but she's also been extremely helpful, generous, kind and loyal. She often takes umbrage at things other people say and do and reacts very extremely. I've known her to engage in very long and vindictive disputes with her neighbours, for example. But I've always turned a blind eye to her domineering ways because she never directed it at me.

Last weekend she and her husband came over and she was very abrasive. We were sitting in the back garden and I warned her in a low voice that my friend and neighbour at the back of me had died and that her funeral had been the day before. I was hoping she wouldn't talk loudly and inappropriately and upset my newly widowed neighbour.

As the evening progressed she said several quite provocative things, suggesting that my widowed neighbour was taking the piss because he had been coming round to me for his dinner a few times (at my request) and insulting my daughters who have recently caused us a lot of heartache.

Things came to a head when I pointed out that DD2 is still a child (she's just 14) and I therefore felt that while she is answerable for some of the things she has done I wanted to be understanding and try and smooth things over with her. BF insisted DD is not a child, and I argued this point, calmly and politely.

She screamed abuse in my face. I asked her to stop shouting, she didn't, so I went up to the loo. She burst in the door and then had a go at me because I went back downstairs when she was 'ready to talk'. She then proceeded to spend the evening shouting venomously in my face. I kept trying to establish what was bothering her and what she wanted me to say or do but all she could come up with was that I had been 'morose' and that she was worried about my mental state as I seemed to be struggling. (Despite recent events with my daughters and losing my friend and neighbour I'd actually been okay until she started on me, then I went slowly downhill as her onslaught continued.)

Yes I am talking Kalms and St John's wort every day, but this is helping me, keeping me calm, rational and functional. I told her I don't feel I am struggling, but I am grieving and that is a different thing. She tried to storm out but I did what I could to make her stay, she had had a couple of glasses of wine and I didn't want her to drive. So she did stay the night in the end. In the morning we were all quite quiet and they left seemingly on okay terms, talking about arranging to have DS for a weekend to give me a break.

I was still annoyed with her, mainly because she had shouted and screamed in my back garden as well as in the house. When I had asked her to respect my neighbour she shouted 'Don't worry about him he's probably gone to bed' to which I replied, that is out of order and I came in, but she continued shouting on her own.

I was annoyed also about her insulting my daughters and making me sound as if I were cracking up because of the pills I am taking. However I was still civil with her and did not do any shouting myself. BF has been under a lot of strain lately and I am willing to let this incident pass however I am not willing to apologise or grovel to make things right. I feel I kept my temper very well, but it just made her crosser because she mistakes calmness for weakness. She always surrounds herself with people who won't argue with her and I think it came as quite a shock to her after 20 years of friendship that I would disagree with her and refuse to accept the treatment she was dishing out.

I then posted them an invitation to my son's birthday party this weekend. I hoped it would serve as a starting point for us to build bridges again. But the postman brought it back to me yesterday, unopened and marked Return to Sender in my BF's handwriting.

I'm perplexed, on the surface we were still in business when they left my house. I'm wondering if she was expecting me to phone and apologise and worked herself up into one of her states when it didn't happen.

I can't decide whether to have another go at talking to her. She is DD2's godmother although she has turned her back on her because of her recent behaviour. Her DH is my son's godmother. It makes me feel sad that we all have to lose one another because she is so proud and opinionated. I know the lost friendship will haunt me. Yet I feel strongly that I have nothing to apologise for and that I just will not allow her to dish out an attitude to me that she wouldn't dream of accepting from me or anyone. I'm very willing to phone her and try and talk but I'm wary that she will see it as me 'grovelling back' or as an apology that I don't feel is warranted. I'm also not willing to have her continuing to go on in the same vein she did when she was here.

I really don't know whether to try any more or not. What is your opinion?

Sorry this is so long.

Do you know what I think? And I am maybe completely wrong as I don't normally do Relationship threads but anyway....

I think she likes it when you need her help and she can swoop in, like when you broke your leg. And she seems to be quite odd in her insistance that your are 'morose and worrying about your mental state' - very odd things to say to your BF, surely she should be geeing you up and saying how great you are coping etc.

Have there been any other instances when you have been coping and she has insisted that you have not?

Let me know if I am completely wrong, I have a thick hide .

xx

Agree there might be something in what OO says, maybe she feels uneasy about you not being so in need of help and support from her. If she defines her relationship with you as her being the "strong one", any shifting of that will discomfit her.

I agree with everyone else, that the ball is really in her court. I would still maybe leave a message on her ansaphone though, saying how hurt and angry I was that she sent back the invitation - that is such a petty, destructive way to behave and you don't want to let a 20 year friendship wither just because you didn't want to communicate.

I've lost a friend of 20 years standing this year, she just stopped returning my calls and e-mails without any explanation and eventually I gave up. There's only so much stalking you can do before you begin to feel that the police may knock on your door with an harrassment order. I know how distressing it is and how pointless it seems, but sometimes, if people take a unilateral decision that they're not going to have a relationship with you any more, however unreasonable or inexplicable, you just have to accept it. It doesn't mean not grieving for it or not minding. It's tough. All you can do is try and mend it and if you can't, give up. I think you've already tried and if you want to try again, do, but after that, there's probably no point.

anorak
Reading what you write, well it seems to me that that amount of anger is completely over the top in the circumstances.
Someone asked if she drinks...Does she have any mental illness? Because her reaction is not normal, sounds actually quite paranoiac.
OO's post interesting about her fostering dependence too.
But, basically, all you can do is to maybe send a short, nice email to her dh, say you are a bit bamboozled, but you'll leave her to cool off and she can call you when she's ready.

Meant to add, things are rough right now, you don't need them getting rougher. Take it as a blessing that she's not around right now and take strength from it if you can.

Anorak do you have other good friends or family around you for support?

Sympathy anorak, sounds very distressing and the last thing you need now. FWIW my mother has a history of falling out with very good friends and cutting them off after decades of friendship. Done this several times (although she would never shout and scream or throw a temper tantrum like your friend). If someone is of that mind, I don't think there is anything you can do. I lost the relationship with one of my godmothers over this, very sadly. No idea what caused the row.

Afraid the only thing you can do is wait and see if she gets back in touch. Send her a Christmas card with a nice message. Unfortunately she may decide to cut off her nose to spite her face but that's her choice. You can't force her to address this very strange and self-defeating behaviour.

anorak, she is a bully. It sounds like you know this but as she has not until now bullied you you have focused on her good points. You have two choices, give in or stand up to her. YOu have already decided not to give in (totally agree with you on that FWIW) so you have to stand your ground on this one. TBH i dont really think it matters much what you do to make your point because you can't change people they have to make that decision for themsleves.

She sounds nuts
I would steer clear
She is behaving v antisocially

I really think i would phone and calmly say that you don't know what happened but your ds birthday invitation was returned. See what she has to say. Definitely don't do any apologising. and don't let her bring you down - no-one should be allowed to do that. Take care.

Thank you very much, what a lot of messages!

She does drink, but hasn't been drinking quite so much recently. She's been dieting. She'd only had two or three glasses of wine when she lost her temper, and we'd eaten a big meal as well.

Oliveoil, yes she certainly enjoys helping others and will really put herself out to do so. I'd never really thought before about how this affects her relationships with her friends but I do think it's very relevant. I've known her to go to friends' houses and redecorate for them, spring clean, or whatever kind of help they need. She will always get her hands dirty. When my daughters were small and their father left me destitute she used to mind the baby for me so that I could go to work, and she's treated us to holiday accommodation in the past on their time share points. I know she has a good heart and is generous with her time and effort as well as material things, but I've sometimes felt a little uneasy because I never feel out of her debt. It's as if she wants me to feel that I owe her. I've never said anything as I didn't want to seem like an ungrateful cow.

The problems I've had recently with my daughters have been things she couldn't help me with, and it's really frustrated her. She's the sort who will take the bull by the horns, but in this case there hasn't been anything we've been able to do that has worked.

I just wish I could make her see that I see value in her even when I don't need something from her. Do you think this is the key to her frustration?

anorak - your point about feeling like you owe her, like you are in her debt -and her not being able to help with your daughters issues.

perhaps her helping over and above what you would expect is a power trip - and she feels she can then do as she pleases because she has done x y and z for you...

giving with one hand and taking away with the other is not really giving...

yes lulunatic. I do sometimes feel as if she expects me to let her say things to me that she wouldn't accept if I said them to her. As if she'd bought the right to do it with her helpfulness and generosity.

She really needs to be in control for some reason and goes to great lengths to make sure she will be. I wonder why she needs this so much.

she needs it because she is insecure and afraid of losing control - god knows why she thinks crying is a sign of weakness....and hence her projection onto you of being anxious about your mental state - TBH i think it is a kind of bullying - keeping you in your place by doing good deeds and slapping you down when you ask anything of her....

anorak, having reread your OP I agree with others who think your bf is a bully & controlling individual. I think you have done a lot to keep a situation calm and build bridges but she seems not to be doing the same. Which is sad. IMHO I think your best course of action is to leave her to it. She may return to you and be prepared to talk reasonably, she may not. The hardest thing is that losing a friend (esp one of 20 years) can be like a bereavement in itself and you have had enough to deal with. Take a step back and give yourself some perspective. You are not weak and it seems to me you certainly have nothing to apologise about.
You do not need this now or ever.

I mentioned the drinking because I have a friend who sounds a bit similar anorak, and lots of issues with her stem from her relationship with alcohol. Sometimes I notice she's unbearably tense and explosive when she hasn't drunk enough to relax-- it really does affect her life in lots of ways.

In your situation I think you may have to decide if you're in it for the long run, regardless. With my friend, I love her and will put up with all her faults in the same way as I would if she were a member of my family. It's just a case of negotiating a path through the minefield sometimes. However, you may just feel that you want to stop right now-- your first loyalty has to be to your daughters, after all, and she's crossed a boundary in criticising them.

First thing to do is decide whether you want to continue the relationship. Second thing is to work out how to do that.

(sorry if above makes little sense. Dds have friends here and am mn-ing while keeping half an ear on the tea shenanigans going on next door)