Can anyone make sense of this dysfunctional family pattern?

[saltnpepa]

My family is very dysfunctional and today I had a sudden realisation. In my family if you are abused you must pretend it was ok, that it doesn't hurt at all and go out of your way to soothe the abuser and protect them from the truth of their abusive behavior. If you are honest about how you feel, if you confront the abuser (even in a gentle fairly compassionate way) you are told you are a trouble maker and cruel. The abusers are allowed to ruin anything they like but if you make a stand and say you want to have anything kept nice/sacred they say you are heartless not to include everyone. My parents are the biggest abusers but siblings are now following close behind. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I started talking about how I felt, just in really simple terms like that I felt uncomfortable with something and everyone went terrifically nuts. Anyone shed any light?

It's certainly a possibility when bullying is present. Bullies rule through fear and manipulation so - in the interest of self preservation - the choices are to either cosy up, shut up or get out. Children can't usually opt for the latter so they either ingratiate themselves or keep their head down. As they get older they might carry on the same way. Naturally, bullies can't take any kind of criticism.

What form did/does the abuse take? Can you say?

Mind games, ruining other peoples happy times like birthday parties and weddings, passive aggression, threats of violence, actual violence, manipulation, lying about reality, keeping secrets, substance abuse, ruining other peoples possessions, racism, witholding affection, controlling conversations, never celebrating anything with other people but going out of way to destroy it, hate emails, txts, post..... the list goes on and on......

Why are you still having anything to do with them? It sounds horrendous and a waste of your time and energy.

So sorry for you.
I suppose as with any form of abuse I suppose if it goes on and on it becomes the norm and you just accept it?

Abuse, bullying and similar comes from a place of selfishness and complete lack of interest in the wellbeing of others. There's also a big correlation with inadequacy. The world these people inhabit is a delusional one where they rule supreme, their behaviour is reasonable, everyone likes them and anyone not buying into the delusion is an enemy.

Hello? Is that you, sister? I'm amazed to see you list the litany of poison in our family - I thought I was the only one in our family who had a problem with it.

Who was it said all happy families are happy in the same way, all unhappy families are unhappy in different ways? Because your family is 'unhappy' in a remarkably similar way to mine. Unless you are, in fact, one of my siblings.

Curiously, our parents don't do it. They do other things that are no doubt to be found somewhere on the toxic spectrum. Perhaps this is my siblings' interpretation.

There is often one family member who doesn't conform to the poison-pattern - and inevitably becomes the family scapegoat because the family will destroy anyone who shines a light on what they're doing.

Copious therapy later, tbh i now don't remember what its called (poison? Toxic? Thick as shit?), just know I want nothing to do with it or them. Why would I? They won't change.

It's a lonely road sometimes but I'd still prefer it any day to the boiling hell of even 5 minutes with that lot.

I've always found my (very simple) understanding of systems theory useful in explaining situations like this. The theory is that any system, in this case a family, will aim for stability and therefore individual parts are resistant to change because of this. Even if they understand at some level that the system is 'bad'.

springy I know what you mean about recognising it! I read Cog's post of 20:00, and she was describing my brother exactly.

saltnpepa Our upbringing was emotionally abusive. I was the scapegoat, he was the golden child. So although we both recognise he was the 'favourite' in our family, it's only been since reading around this, that I I've realised that this was just as damaging for him as it was for me, but in a different way.

Ultimately, he has internalised our parents messages that he is always right and to be pandered to, and I am always wrong and to blame. He feels resentful that he didn't have the family he thinks he deserves and he has impossibly high, and unrealistic, expectations of what 'family' means and, having no other family (dad is dead, both already NC with mother) all of those expectations fall to me. And it would be impossible for me to meet them without neglecting not only my own needs, but also my children's. In his world he, and want he wants, is all that counts. And he doesn't always appear selfish, because if he decides that what he wants is to feel important by helping someone else (e.g. me) then help he will, whether or not it is convenient or appropriate.

The bottom line is, I understand my family's dysfunction perfectly well. I understand where my dad's dysfunction came from, I understand some of my mother's dysfunction. I understand how that brought one vulnerable person (my father) into the clutches of an inadequate emotional abuser (my mother). I understand how that played out in their relationship and into their parenting styles. I understand exactly how that manifested in our lives and how it impacted on both my brother and myself. I understand how it underpins every decision I make in my life - even when I reject it, I can still feel the pull, I just know I need to try and ignore it and I understand that it's destroyed the relationship I could have had with my only sibling...

The bottom line is, I understand all of it, but it makes no difference. My dad is dead and I'm NC with my mother and my brother. I have no other family (both parents only children so no aunts/uncles/cousins) except for my children. I'm essentially all alone in the world (because I'm also incapable of having/sustaining romantic relationships on the back of it) but do you know what, without that toxicity in my life, I'm happier than I've ever been.

As my ex would say, you might well understand why a tiger is going to eat you, but you're still not going to stand in it's cage with it. Understanding won't make it any better.

So many sad stories, but stories of survival! I suppose it is about preserving the status quo from their perspective, maybe they don't know any other way to interact so when someone says that's not ok then it means it has to be the end of the relationship because there's no other options available. I remember when I first started going to friends houses I was aghast that they treated eachother with love, that nobody ripped into eachother, that people were given their own space to be themselves, that people sort of appreciated eachother as people not just as extensions of themselves. it's so complicated.

Someone once said to me 'I can say anything to you and you don't react'. That's one thing that you learn in an abusive family. Show no feelings whasoever.

Saltnpepa - I can relate, and going through a similar process of unravelling to try to make sense of it all.

That's really interesting, skolastica. I've been told by 2 people recently that I'm very difficult to read. That if anything gets too 'emotional' I shut down and just smile.

I don't show my feelings to others at all.

Many people in dysfunctional families adapt to the situation so that it is the least uncomfortable for them, and even when it compromises them, they will justify their position to the end.

In a way I think it is easier to get out if you are the scapegoat because you can see the situation for what it is and life gets a whole lot better when you do something about it. Who wants to have the revelation that they are a horrible bully, or that the praise and favoritism they received as a child was actually feeding someone else's ego? No no no - and they will do anything to preserve the status quo.

Also, some people are deeply conditioned not to challenge the bullies in their lives because of the consequences, so if someone else comes along and does that it is deeply unsettling.

Imagine that there is a dog that bites. The dog has always been there, particularly when you were small and it was bigger than you. The dog oversteps the mark, takes things that belong to others and guards them. You know how to live alongside it without being bitten, but you had to learn what amounts to complex ritual to achieve this and you learned the hard way.

Then someone else comes along, breaks all the 'rules' and reclaims stuff that the dog is guarding - its scary!

I'm not happy, I'm desperate. My kids have gone over to 'the other side' (rich, sparkling, inside not outside ). I understand why they've done it but it doesnt ease the seering pain if it.

sorry, early morning despair letting the side down.

In a way I think it is easier to get out if you are the scapegoat because you can see the situation for what it is and life gets a whole lot better when you do something about it. Who wants to have the revelation that they are a horrible bully, or that the praise and favoritism they received as a child was actually feeding someone else's ego? No no no - and they will do anything to preserve the status quo.

So, so true.

My brother certainly doesn't see himself as a bully. See, he wouldn't need to behave the way he does if only I (for example, I'm not the only one...) showed him the respect he deserved, or behaved in the way that 'family' should behave.

He was definitely put on a pedestal by our parents. When he graduated he really struggled with finding his first job because, as a graduate, he felt he should command a certain level of job with a certain level of income. He just wasn't getting the respect/recognition he deserved...

Do you live with them salt.

Do you know what you would have to do to leave them behind?

Live with them? Not a chance! I have very limited contact with them now and I have put very firm boundaries in place and protecting my kids from them is my priority. For example my brother threatened to beat me up (no particular reason) so I lodged the threat with the police. When I told my mother what had happened she was furious with me for telling the police. That's the sort of thing that happens.

Ah, so you are safe already.

You just want to understand the insanity. I totally get that.

Have you tried the Stately Homes threads?

I found the book Toxic Parents helpful. Also The Emotionally Absent Mother.

Yes I'd like to try and understand that pattern, of blaming the person who sees reality for what it is rather than taking part in the denial and going along with the abusive behavior. I mean surely they know their behavior isn't normal?!

I think they do, saltnpepa, at some level. Well, most of them. A few genuinely don't. I think most do though.

But they surround themselves with people who agree / are coerced or dominated into agreeing with them which bolsters their opinions "because look, other people think the same! so it must be you!"

Over time in some people that little squirming awareness that they're not doing things in a healthy way is so squashed that they loose touch with it altogether. There's no hope then of ever really communicating.

One of the hardest things is reallly acknowledging that family like this are fundamentally not reasonable. Ie, there's a wall in the way that you can't surmount. You cannot talk to them, cannot be treated in a give-and-take way. That's really hard to come to terms with, especially when secretly you long for a loving family

But how do you reconcile it all when it means your children don't have grandparents that they can build any sort of real relationship with. My mum says I'm controlling because I watch her with the kids and don't let her take them on her own, but that is because any time she has ever been with them alone she has scared the shit out of them. Evil old woman.

How do you reconcile it? I don't think you can make it okay. I think it's always one of those things you'd like to be very different but have to live with it being not. It's not okay, but it is the way it is.

(If she's scaring the shit out of them, she's a terrible grandmother and whatever she says, you're making the right decision for the right reasons.)