"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

(New thread as previous one is full).

It's October 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

She's being an arse about the bills on the flat. Via my brother who's off sick from work. From what I gather she may be gone in about 2 weeks.
Don't feel celebratory yet, just....bleugh. Talked about it in therapy today (not about the sold sign and the keys, only just heard that) and it was helpful.

Thank you Meerka you've been great.

mampam hope the section goes well. Have you got peppermint tea and Simon Cowell pants for afterwards yet?

Here is a link to my self indulgent thread it's long too

In essence my mother is and has always been horrible. She has friends, people seem to like her but I don't. I'm struggling with the idea that it might be in my head but I think she says things that are unacceptable and she makes me feel like an anxious child. I worry I will become her. I worry I will be toxic towards my kids. I don't want her to be toxic towards my kids. I am already aware that my parents are unkind towards each other and I am heading towards that nasty, sniping behaviour. DH and the example his parents set is encouraging me to work at that.

good get dh to take the keys and put them in the box.

she's being a complete bitch about this. stay well out of it.

I was wondering whether to just ignore it completely actually. If she signed yday then it's not like she needs them to give to the buyers, she has more than one set and she could have made copies before then if not. I suppose it may bee that she's told them I have a set. If I do drop them off she'll use it to say I'm a cruel heartless bitch who wouldn't even say hello, just put keys in the box.

and she's a cruel heartless bitch who'd rather move than say sorry.

sorry, she wins in the bitch stakes, you're merely facilitating her move.

ignoring her could be an idea. she's told your db to pass a message, you've told your db NOT to act as her mouthpiece. it gets him out of the middle too.

you can always drop the keys to the new owners when she's gone.

She really is a horrible old cow, isn't she?

She's subtle. She comes over as nice old lady which makes everyone think "how could anyone be so mean to such a nice old lady who's struggling".

But the reality of the situation is rather different to that, isn't it. Suffocating and she's also slippery - you can't get a real genuine conversation with her over a problem. Leaves you baffled and knowing that something seems wrong but you can't put your finger on it and she makes you feel like it's a fault in you, that you aren't giving and loving enough.

Like ivy, she clings on and sucks the strength out of what's around her. I bet you and your husband are overall getting on much better now.

If I'm right about what I've just written (do tell me if not!) then I'd also venture that actually she's pretty deeply unhappy. I suspect there is a very deep neediness in her, perhaps combined with a bit of laziness. Also a lot of anger. Through manipulation she's become used to getting her own way ... and as everyone knows, always getting your own way is a baaaaaad thing. Stand up to her now and she can't take it at all, can't adjust and becomes extra manipulative to get her own way becuase someone's said No Further On This. She is probably hurt and lonely now, but in the end, she is so deeply unhealthy that you had to make a choice. It was take the path of living, or take the path of being stifled. You had to choose to live.

If you hadn't, there's also a good chance that you might have become her in later years. Not certain, but a good chance.

for me it was also the realisation that it wasn't just my mother - i don't know how it is with your siblings good but my sister IS my mother and in some ways worse and i could then see how my niece was being drawn onto that path as well which was heartbreaking.

in my case the toxicity was not going to die in one generation - it rarely does from what i can see.

the mantle was being passed on.

sorry to just dive in.

spiders ofc, as soon as I saw your thread I realised. Sorry. I don't find names (and visual recognition of faces) aren't easy to remember. Events and details are easier =)

Do you talk it over with your husband, the parenting thing? A lot of it is being very aware of what you're doing. Also, I find myself that I have to distinguish between normal motherly ARG days when you snap and get cross, and when you are starting to behave in ways that are destructive ... making comments that put them down, saying the wrong thing and you realise it comes directly from some part of you that's got some pretty bad modelling.

Mindfulness training can be quite useful here maybe. -thinking- about what you're doing. Being aware of it.

Dive away, honey! That's the so sad thing isn't it ... nice people being ruined by bad parents, and that passing on down :( Hard work to break that pattern.

the niece was grandma's golden girl (as my sister was) which caused jealousy and nastiness from my sister towards my niece. my niece then was getting golden girl juxtaposed with her mum being somewhat of a bitch to her and being mangled between those two positions but in the end leaning towards needing to 'win' the game. to me that point where you enter the ring and decide you want to 'win' is kind of when you're fucked and doomed to be the next one, carrying it on into the next generation.

i do think knowing you have no chance of winning does you a favour in that sense. sure abuse, low self esteem, horrible messages to challenge and silence in your head etc etc etc but you still have a shot at redemption and being a decent human being rather than getting trapped in the opera of the cycle.

Yeah.

funny thing, I came from the judeo-christian religious background. That thing in the Bible ... "the sins of the parents will be visited on the children, yes, until the 8th or 9th generation" has come to make a sort of sense. It's not God punishing the children. It's just the unfolding and perpetration of the damage ...

funny meerka - i've had that thought myself about that quote. i also sometimes have this feeling of breaking a chain and starting a new line. i don't feel related to them or to anyone to be honest. it's like i'm a separate line.

Very perceptive, Meerka. Yes, I think that's all very true. The thing about standing up to her and her not dealing with it is true. She can't cope with that AT ALL. The reason we moved out was the same thing, that she went ballistic when I stood up to her and said I wasn't playing her games.
I think she is very lonely and miserable and that this is the worst thing that has ever happened to her, but I didn't do this or create it or drive, it's all her. And I can't fix it for her. Hard lessons for me to learn, but true.

Hello all, big hugs to you all, and a specially big one for mampam for your section, hope it goes smoothly and you get newborn squishy cuddles very soon, you lucky thing!

Have a lot to post, but no time atm, am in process of setting up a business (wheeee!), but will come back soon I promise.

I think she is very lonely and miserable

Because she WANTS/NEEDS to be so. it gives her the ability to solicit attention. no such thing as bad PR or attention for people like her. the bad/sad/mad stuff is the most effective way of getting everyone to drop everything NOW and be there for her.

she doesn't believe in herself enough to think that people would bother if she was normal. she has to create strive, poison and upset because calm tranquil and easy life stuff unsettle her. she needs to be the vortex of everything in her world.

Ignore her 'request', don't supply the keys, give them to the new people when they move in. SHE made it this way, she can deal with it.

In all cases, refuse to get involved in the bills stuff, let your DB sort stuff out with her on the flat that is his anyway. It will bugger up your life financially if you get yourself involved.

Hold strong, this is hard, it will be very hard when it all finally happens. gather your babes and H around you and hold on tight, you will come through the other side FINE!

Hi all not much time asbkids bedtime but want to get it all down as sometimes wonder if I am making something out of nothing or feeling sorry for myself or something.
Only occurred to me last week that my late df was complisent in all of this. Parents had a long and what I now realise was a bizarre relationship.
Have a few major issues I need to get out and sort. Just don't know what I would do without mn for support and advice. Back as soon as I can

Are you OK, mutternutter?

I had a little stab of guilt today. Therapist decided my guilt is all tied up with fear (FOG again I suppose). We talked about where it manifests physically in me and did a little hypnotherapy exercise to help release it. So I did that and it helped and then was texting with Dbro about his flat and he'd spoken to her and she was doing her usual martyr/victim/poor little me act and bitching about me not giving the keys back and I just thought, fuck me, she is soooooooooooo self-absorbed! Got rid of the guilt, I can tell you! :)

I've struggled a bit with wanting to post on here, I did on the previous thread a couple times but I've started councelling two weeks ago and suddenly feeling overwhelmed. Posted in the Mental Health boards today but have since had an email from my mother after I attempted to talk to her about it.

The essence of it is I can't change the mistakes I made as a child. I was a quiet child, read a lot of books, done well in school, didn't drink or take drugs or get in trouble with the police. I was kept in my room when I wasn't doing housework and not allowed to join in with family activities, always in trouble for something but never sure what. I did run away three times, always brought home within less than 24 hours and things got better for a week or two, I wasn't shouted at or made to stay in my room but something would always happen and I was suddenly in trouble again for something that made no sense (writing letters to my only friend/random claims that the old man who lived next to us said I stuck my fingers up at him, I didn't and he never said I had, my brother lying about me etc).

The reality was that I was treated like I wasn't loved or wanted, I was the middle child and an inconvenience. But somehow I deserved the way I was treated, I somehow made so many mistakes, behaved so awfully and was a nightmare to raise. I took an overdose at 15 I was that depressed and after that made to sit on the sofa or at the kitchen table with no one talking to me and not allowed to move until I was sent to bed. But somehow I deserved it all, somehow the blame is all at my door.

I can't fix the mistakes I made as a child, I can't change how I was as a child, but I've to be grateful that my life path has led me to where I am now? I've two amazing little ones, that's for sure. But I'm an emotional wreck so much that no matter how much I love my little ones I am so incredibly lonely, so incredibly desperate to be loved but I can't even believe my angels when they say they love me.

For six years I let first my dc father and then the man I was with after that use me because I was so desperate to be loved and wanted and cared for. But I should be grateful.

My councillor was the first person in the world to tell me it wasn't my fault. And logically I know that but emotionally I still believe I'm the one at fault for everything. But I'm sick of taking responsibility, I'm sick of being the better person and I can't decide now of I'm just so angry or hurt.

Sorry if this is all rambled and things are repeated, I just have a lot of conflicting stuff going on atm. Can't seem to get my head straight today.

doesn't have to be either or or any 'just' about it. you're allowed a whole bundle of feelings including angry AND hurt. what was the contact with your mum?

just to state the obvious - it wasn't your fault - you were a child and what sounds like a pretty easy going one who did her best to be invisible much of the time.

It was over email, she moved to a different country a few years ago and I have minimal contact since I closed my Facebook account a few months ago. I'm not saying that I was without fault, there was times when I'd argue with my sister/brother or be moody at having to do the housework for the third day running, I wouldn't do the dishes properly all the time or id take ages to do them. I started smoking at school at lunch time at14/15 when my friend did and the school sent a letter home about it once.

I've tried to talk to her about it before (long before I started councelling) and we stopped talking for a couple of years because of it. I guess I don't really want a big confrontation this time, I don't want her to not talk to me because of it. Not really sure why I posted, feeling rather foolish now. I was just upset earlier, too much emotions have been going on the past couple days.

Yet more evidence today that my mother is basically a nasty old woman.

Is everything ok GoodtoBetter?

She's leaving the country in about 12 days (emigrating rather than apologise for bitching about me). I still have a spare set of keys for her house. She told my brother to get me to put them in her post box. I ignored. Now she sent him a message saying she wants a suitcase back that apparently I have that is hers, one of a set she says. Says it's "unacceptable". She was to go to the bank and get details about one of the bills Dbro needs to change to his name on his flat out here, says she won't go up there unless she gets some "co-operation". I think she means unless I give her keys and suitcase back.
Chance to make peace? Nah, fuck that, I'll just be rude to my daughter again and try to blackmail her.
She can whistle for her keys and case. If she wants them she can come and ask nicely. Bitch.
I'm not even angry or sad, it's almost laughable how much of a total fruitloop she is. Not long now and she'll be on another continent. Nutter. Helps greatly counteract any stabs of guilt anyway! ha ha!

Obviously sooooooooooooooo gutted about never seeing her GC again. NOT.