"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

(New thread as previous one is full).

It's October 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

muminboots that website should come with a warning..."Please note that some readers may be blinded as the glaring truth hits them smack in the face". I only got as far as the quiz and had to stop reading (although I married a massively abusive man too so it's a double whammy)! I will have to take that website in small chucks I think.

Still on the appearance subject; my sister is 8 years older than me and very very slim and elegant. She came home from Oz a few years ago for a holiday, and we were at the airport to see her off when she was going home again. My mother heard someone calling her name, and saw a woman she used to work with. My sister had gone to check in, but I was standing next to my mother with my daughter in the pushchair. The woman asked my mum 'oh, is this your daughter?' and smiled at me. My mother replied, with a dismissive wave of her hand, 'yes yes, but there's my OTHER daughter she's here on business from overseas you know' and turned herself and the woman in the other direction, thus turning their backs on me. How shit did I feel then? I was the fat, frumpy one, and my sister was the slim glamorous one. She wasn't here on business at all, ffs, she had just come over to see her family. God, the amount of times that woman has put me down.

Couldn't agree more Talking some very wise points there!

vivvyen ((((HUG))))

Aw, vivvyen that's so shit. When my mother makes me feel like a little piece of shit on her shoe like that, I try to visualise myself growing and growing like the hulk and towering over her and then I flick her into the gutter. Me? Rage and loathing?

The trouble is that whether they contact me or they don't, the message is still the same: they don't love me. They don't know how to love, really. It's not my fault, nothing to do with me, just some deficiency in them - certainly caused by the inadequate/damaging parenting they themselves received.

yes, yes. I think in my mother's case she doesn't know how to express love. She did when I was little, whcih has made it harder to detach. But it's like once I hit pre teen she decided she could turn me into a mini adult, a spouse, a co-dependant. And she can't handle that I have (naturally) grown up and made a life of my own. She can't cope with the idea that she isn't the centre of my world like a mother is for a little child and so she lashes out and clings and provokes she becomes the child.

But the end result is that NC is only way to cope really.

Really doubting myself tonight If dm and I have such differing memories of how things were, how do I believe that I am right. Maybe I am remembering wrong, or there were just a few incidents.

I don't know. I sometimes think I'm just a awful person. You all seem so sure of yourselves. I don't even remember much of my childhood.

what if it really wasn't that bad and it's just my wonky brain. Driving myself crazy thinking about it.

mum, you feel deeply unhappy about how you were treated. Most people aren't awful persons. And you were drawn to this thread, I think for a reason. You hate deeply going home, don't you? that isn't normal or right - the parental home should be a slightly-outworn haven. Not a place of dread.

Remember the Dementors ... your mum sounds like that. Someone who says mean, joy-draining things.

Most people arent awful people* and neither are you.

You're not awful muminboots, you're normal and mired in FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) and confused by their gaslighting.

These things take a while to sink in and work through. Took me about 2 years, tbh and I think that's fairly standard.

Thank you for your replies. I find it amazing that some of you really take the time to consider people's situations and offer advice and support. How do you actually find the time?! It's taken me a while to find a moment to reply. Anyway it is really appreciated.

Attila, I have decided not to go NC because I don't feel ready yet. At the moment, for whatever reason it would feel wrong not having any family ties and I feel that it would be cruel to cut contact altogether. I know that for those of you that have, you advise that it is the best way as nothing will change but I'm quite new into this journey of discovering that things are not how they should be and I'm guessing for a lot of others it maybe took time, soul-searching, being pushed to the limit etc. before finally making that leap. Maybe it will be the same for me.

I agree that I should send a very different message. When I thought about writing what the counsellor suggested, I realise that it is just not true. I am not looking forward to seeing her.

With regards to how I think my visit will go- I think (or at least hope) it will go ok because we live really far away and only see her about twice a year (it will be 3 this time). The last time we visited in April and when she visited us in August went without event other than her usual bossy "how to parent" comments. It's the messages and emails in between that cause problems. So there was a big blow-out in May after we got back which really annoyed me as things had been 'fine' until she stirred it up. Then again a few weeks ago which stems from me trying to limit contact (i.e. not phoning much, not much chat). I am fine to limit contact to a few visits a year and very occasional chats inbetween but it just seems to wind her up and then messages come about how dysfunctional this family is, nobody cares about her, the birthday cards I get her are too plain etc.

Meerka I agree with a lot of what you are saying. She was quite harsh. When I'd say things like "I think my mum is angry at me" she would say, "she probably is!" She didn't really give much heed to my emotions and frustrations saying "you're not that little girl anymore" and kind of encouraging me to be the bigger person by either just ignoring or humouring my mother and not taking any heed of her comments. Because she says she will not change and the way it is at the moment we are both doing the same thing to each other, just in different ways (hurting each other). I don't think she is necessarily encouraging me to maintain full contact, but because I had said I wanted to maintain low-moderate contact, then this is the only way to do it? Is there another way to achieve that? So I think her way is because I came to her saying that I wanted to keep contact and wanted to figure out how to manage the relationship.

It really annoyed me towards the end of the last session when she held my hands and kind of joked "Mothers! They really, drive us mad eh!" It's the kind of fly-away comment I can imagine some of my friends sharing over a glass of wine or whatever but I just think you cannot compare a typically loving, sometimes annoying mum with what I have. It did make me wonder if she really gets it, or if she just thinks "we don't get on". She really really annoyed me actually with a lot of things she said such as don't be the victim and she kept putting words in my mouth and wouldn't let me back down and would bring up things I said in the previous session or earlier. She did warn me though that confrontational was her style. I don't know if her own experiences may have contributed to this.

I have thought about it and read your comments and decided this is not the right person for me in the long-term. Unfortunately I am bound to attend 1 more appointment with her which is on Monday. I have tried and I can't get out of it without paying for it and it's too expensive to just not go.

muminboots I often feel the same as you- maybe it wasn't how I'm imagining it? Because I wasn't abused (or what I consider abuse). I don't know.

Marking my place. Will be back later.

Amyanne

I also think you're normal but mired in FOG (and the more you write about that counsellor the more concerned I would be; do make Monday's session the last one ever with this person regardless) and confused by mother's constant gaslighting of you. Her behaviour towards you was to and remains abusive in nature; this is all about power and control. This counsellor is also doing her fair bit as well to further disempower you and further muddy already murky waters.

Counsellors are like shoes; you need to find someone who fits in with your approach. Clearly this person does not do that so this one is not the right one for you. It may well be that you will need to vet a few other counsellors individually before you decide on one you use going forward.

Re your comment:-
"Then again a few weeks ago which stems from me trying to limit contact (i.e. not phoning much, not much chat). I am fine to limit contact to a few visits a year and very occasional chats inbetween but it just seems to wind her up and then messages come about how dysfunctional this family is, nobody cares about her, the birthday cards I get her are too plain etc".

This is why I do not think that even low contact is going to work because your mother is already disrespecting or trying to bypass any boundary you care to set her. It may well be that ultimately you will need to be no contact with her and that is clearly a step you cannot do yet understandably. What sort of mother however, criticises her DDs choice of card?. One boundary you can do is certainly stop reading her messages inbetween visits particularly given the whoa is me, nobody cares about me nonsense she seems so fond of spouting. She writes to you because in you she has a willing audience and because you are emotionally healthy you want to help her. Her "problems" tug at your heartstrings; her behaviour also is very manipulative and she does that to get what she wants from you. This though is one way and she will stop at nothing to put the boot into you, even criticising your choice of card citing it was too plain. Problem also here is people like your mother do not want your "support" and help, she just wants you to use as a one way sounding board. She is not interested in what you feel or think; you're there to serve her and meet her myriad of needs which change hourly.

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth."

amyanne with the counsellor, Im probably working a bit too much off my experience here, but in your last session it might be worth thinking about some of what she says. She does not sound right for you, if she doesn't get how your mother was and if she's trying to push you into the mother-role (I wonder if she has some mother issues herself?) But sometimes counsellors who are harsh can come out with things that can be thoughtprovoking which gentler people won't say.

I suppose I'm saying weigh up what she says. Some of it might be crap and miss the mark by a long way. Some of it might be uncertain. Some of it might have the odd useful insight.

Hello ladies. Not posted for a while but it's coming up to Xmas...

I'm in a bit of a mess for a number of reasons. DF contacted me through FB saying he was distraught and what has he done to make me ignore him. He implored me to contact him one last time and he can't keep being hurt. He listed all the things he's done for me. So it fits on a text funny he only helped me out in between women. He also told me he's the only one in the family who's not slagged me off. Thanks for that. Message was a few days ago and I've ignored. I tried to find out how I could block but he would know I've done it. I've blocked him on my mobile.

Dsis has fallen out with him. She's told me hes off to Oz so hopefully he will fuck off soon. Problem is, I've been dreaming about him. Generally we're at a big social event and he keeps staring at me. It's really unnerving.

I'm also really hoping he will be gone before Xmas as I want to go and see the rest of my family.

Also, DH comes from an even more abusive background. His DM is an evil witch and he's got a narc DB who is a nasty bastard. We've been LC since February but she will start ramping thins up I'm sure.

DH has suffered badly over the years. He was diagnosed with bipolar but we think it is PTSD from his childhood. The problem is, I can't give anymore. I feel completely empty. I've noticed a pattern through the years that we've been together. He's had various jobs and we had a business (VERY stressful) the pattern: he comes in and then rants and raves about all the injustices. Some times it's not too bad but sometimes it's awful. Last night was awful. He was hyper and knocking chairs over and banging the walls. Pressure has been building recently.

Over the last couple of years I've been slowly withdrawing (not quite realising what I'm doing) he thinks I'm abandoning him. I actively avoid him sometimes.. Now and again I tell him I can't listen to it. He's totally isolated himself and I feel like I'm it, his last chance saloon. I feel like his mother, carer, nurse and I'm so tired

We have both recently paid for counselling (separately). I was doing well although I've not quite found the right counseller. I started going out doing yoga and meditation etc. I felt I could cope more with his rants. He was doing quite well but stopped going.

He then had a rant about a month ago and mentioned about me going out etc. he was obviously pissed off. This was after my one night out a year on the company do. I also found out the other weekend, when he was looking after our 8yo he left him home alone so he could go on a walk, will have been out for more than half hour.

So recently i know that I can't push it. I'm not going to yoga and I won't leave him looking after the kids. We have no family close to help me out and were in a new area. I just feel so alone. Sorry I've rambled on. I cried for the first time in ages last night. Then I had to pick up ds looking like a horror!

What a legacy, thanks to all those abusive parents...

My therapist has said to me that it's his job to "challenge" me as well as support me, but he means to challenge me to think through things and think for myself, not make me feel guilty. I get the impression he is there to support me, maybe make me think about things that are hard, but never make me feel shit about myself. He also stresses that I should only have what contact I feel comfortable with, with my mother.
I think yours sounds wrong for you.

dirty it sounds awful :( No life for you and your husband doesn't sound happy either. Was it a case of two hurt people being drawn together?

I was going to offer advice but then thought that you probably know most of it anyway. So .... just to say that you are entitled to live your life without fielding toxic fathers or mother(inlaws). You are entitled to enjoy your life.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend. We're off to watch the switching on of the Christmas lights with the PILs this afternoon. Things all fine here, just occasionally have a little WTF moment when I remember what's gone on in the last 4 months or so.
There was a thread here a while back about someone feeling their parents had effectively gone NC with them, which I suppose is what Dm has done to me really. A relief, but still feel WTAF about it, still find it shocking that someone is capable of that.

dunno if this is anything, but a bit of opinion'd be helpful right now...

got a flaming twitch in my eye for the last 2 weeks, intermittent, driving me nuts.

at work I feel sick with anxiety - ok so am doing bigger stuff which is what i'm supposedly an expert in for the first time since my old big job days

kind of getting into a LRD (but I don't feel nervous about that, he's super!)

yesterday, when flmaing OUT, got an attack of the Labyrinthitus.

still flaming shakey and nervy today.

labyrynthitus is either caused by bacterial infection, or extreme stress.

what with christmas coming on, money an issue and family stuff... could it be stress???

should I go get something to calm me down or hop on a plane for a spot of ooh la la therapy

joking aside, am I being over dramatic? will I just get through and be ok? do I need to worry?

It does sound like it could be stress Hissy (sorry, just jumping in, not really a SH regular...). How are you sleeping? My eyes always get twitchy when I'm sleep deprived. Whether or not the labyrinthitis is stress related, it sounds like you could do with some help with the work anxiety. Have you ever done anything that's helped with that before?

Christmas is a stressful time for everyone, even without other stuff going on. I'm getting the familiar feeling of wanting to opt out of the whole thing, but have to force myself for the dc. It's getting easier year on year though.

You'll get through it, but you should look after yourself too. Hopping on a plane sounds like a fab idea

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that Christmas is stressful for everyone so what are you complaining about... I meant it's stressful enough as it is and then if you have other stuff going on it's worse.

Hissy

I would see the GP and he will look into your ears to see if there is any infection. Same re your eye twitching (but the GP may well suggest to you that you see an optician for that particular issue).

I do not think that you will need to be sent to the glue factory just yet!.

hmmm.. sleep not overly bad, but not brilliant. it's been worse, but when i'm feeling more normal in the day. I feel super stressy today. have stuffed face with icecream, that's helped :)

the only time i've felt like this is when I was agoraphobic. have dug out the Rescue Remedy which helped then, will see what's what next week.

MLeLDR is coming over in a couple of weeks, so all being well will plan a plane trip after then. for now Skype is great.

this time last year I had the impending misery of a NC christmas, then DM did her storm my house thing and I had to call the police, so actually I didn't have a single qualm about being NC.

this year I feel more exposed in a way as there's no adrenaline thing.

as you say, being kind to self is the wayforward.

thanks

it's a twitch under the eye Atilla, comes and goes, bot horrendous, but adds to the overall feeling of being on edge. eyesight is fine otherwise.

there is an eye thing connected with labyrinthitus, but it's the actual pupil/eyeball that twitches, not the skin under.

have got tablets from the labyrinthitus from the summer, and it isn't nearly as bad as it was then. will take them and hopefully will be normal in the week.

will give myself another week and then go to the Drs if i'm not 100%

Sorry to hear you are feeling down, Hissy. It may be an infection and also stress. Perhaps it's a kind of come down after the high-adrenalin-stress of last year.
I'd say go the the doctor anyway and also try to tkae some time to yourself and try to ease the stress at work. Cover all bases so to speak.

xx

Hey Look! not my circus not my monkeys
:)

Hissy the eye twitching can definitely be stress and anxiety. The labyrinthitus I don't know about, but I definitely think some ooh la la therapy would be beneficial