"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

(New thread as previous one is full).

It's October 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

I totally agree honeybadger and I know I have to sit back and let it all play out because I can't change it without, like you say, total surrender and also because I have to see how far she will go, what's she's capable of if I just leave her to it.
My therapist sent me a thing all about "thinking errors" or negative automatic thoughts, which was interesting (not least because my mother does pretty much all of them a lot) and I think her emigrating in a strop like this encapsulates a lot of those NATs:
black and white thinking (it's all or nothing/us and them/the end is nigh)
Catastrophising (she'll obviously never speak to me again, I must leave the country)
Mind reading (attributing thoughts to me based on her own warped processes)
Emotional reasoning
Blaming (it's MY fault, I'm making her do it)
Emotive language "you are obviously never going to let me see the GC again, so it's best if I get right out of your life, however much it costs me financially"

Once you look at it like that there's no point in doing anything other than letting it play out, is there?

That last bit sounds like she's playing the martyr in an attempt to emotionally blackmail you. I hope you can stay strong,ignore her epic flounce and not get sucked back in.

Oh yes spider she is an award winning martyr. And I agree that this is basically a giant tantrum. A flounce of truly EPIC proportions.

yeah my mother only seems to speak in those terms but usually at me iyswim - so the messages were never about what i had done in a particular instant but to my absolute core eg. you ALWAYS, you NEVER, you ARE x, y and z and ALWAYS have been etc.

i remember not telling them i was pregnant for the first 6 months (and they are so self absorbed they never even suspected or noticed) because i just didn't want to hear all of that doom and gloom and negativity. i wanted to be totally secure in my pregnancy (i'd had a miscarriage in the past), totally secure in my decision to have my son on my own and totally built and good in myself before i invited them anywhere near the issue. it was an instinctive need to protect myself and my baby and our little world even before he was born.

that doom saying all damning, total condemnation with the always, nevers and you ARE's was always lurking just beneath the surface with her. it's like her ammunition and as we all know it doesn't take much to send narcs and sociopaths into tantruming rages where no holds are barred.

i think of all those statements as like machine gun fire you know? all incredibly familiar and spat at me in quick succession trying to rip me to shreds.

it was always upsetting but not because i believed it necessary - more because, to see her turn like that, to feel the strength of her venom towards me was actually shocking and upsetting and i think always made me desperately sad for myself that i'd been raised by her and the familiarity of it would throw me back to being a little girl stuck in the house with her whilst she raged at me like that with no one and nothing to defend me and no way out.

sorry not meaning to go on a poor little me trip but thinking about what that endless rain of disturbed negative thinking combined with a sense of entitlement to project it out onto objects of your choice (re: me lol) does to the atmosphere. it is truly toxic.

Yes, that's another of the NATs from his list the "you are always xyz, you are never xyz" statements.

Got to nip out, am running late. Will check back later.

my mother had no mercy. you could cry and sob or shout or scream - it wouldn't touch her. if you cried you were an actress or a drama queen or had a persecution complex, if you fought back there you go, proof of what a horrible selfish nasty devil child you are and always have been.

children are so trapped.

i understand some people end up repeating the cycle and getting together with abusers but i thank goodness that for me it has made me very intolerant on the whole of abusive people. there's this feeling of hang on, i don't have to stay for this, i'm not even related to you, i'm certainly not a child trapped in your web so fuck off and cease to exist in my world please.

that phrase, 'god i'm not even related to this person', has played a few times in my head when i realise someone is treating me awfully and enjoying it and been my cue to go oh i don't have to put up with this, i can just leave.

as a child you can't. you're stuck in it.

sorry folks bit of a vent day i guess.

a guy is being extremely nice to me and offering help with driving us around places i might like to move to and i think, as is a bit usual for me, it's unnerving me a bit. there's still a bit of me that worries when people are nice and willing to do things for me and feels guilty and ashamed. i need to reflect on it really.

i know the obvious level is the programming to believe i'm a terrible person and anyone who likes me just doesn't know me like she does or is being manipulated by me and my actress self. think there's some more subtle stuff going on as well though.

on a trivial level i struggle with compliments or people expressing a high estimation of me - on a less trivial level it obviously affects relationships and my ability to be able to form a healthy relationship with someone who actually does respect and care for me. will try and shush a bit now and stop thread hogging

Hello all. I have been doing much better with my mother and have detached quite successfully, we have short weekly phone calls, and they have dd regularly for the day, but I don't really tell them about my life any more. Much simpler. She also has memory issues and anxiety, so has a tendency to forget things and then make up her own version. We don't really have a relationship anymore, she doesn't remember anything we talk about anyway (which I find very upsetting) and I just don't have the energy to be responsible for her emotionally. But now we have Christmas drama, I am feeling awful about it all and like a horrible daughter.

Last christmas was the first since I had broken up with my husband, so we shared xmas day, spent Christmas eve and the morning with dd and my parents then went to my new partner's family for xmas lunch while dd went to my ex. My parents spent the whole morning being passive agressive and pissy about us 'abandoning them' halfway through xmas, and made the whole thing very uncomfortable.

Fast forward to this year- partner and I are now engaged, and have been invited to a big christmas thing 4 hours away with his family, from christmas eve until boxing day. We are going- its important to dp, I love his family and will have a much nicer christmas than with my own. My ex is due to have dd anyway, so I would rather be busy since shes not with me. My parents are furious. They have called me several times to tell me how angry and disappointed they are. Apparently I should have broken it to my mum more gently, asked how they felt about it, basically given them a chance to say no. We will still be seeing them several times over Christmas as it is. I have just had to listen to a huge guilt trip from my mother about how she feels I don't care about her, how I like my dp's family more than them, how I don't always reply to text messages or call her back until the next day (I have depression and frankly cannot always cope with her and her passive aggressive guilt trippy crap).

My dad is emotionally abusive, my mum is oblivious and relies on me to make everything ok, not stand up to him or say how I feel. Dissent is 'being difficult'. I am so so tired of it all.

Morning. I am just popping on for a hand hold please. Been no contact with my narc mum for near on a decade now. Every now and then she will attempt contact to declare she is dying and how shit I am basically. This is linked to the fact I have never allowed contact with my ds. It appears she has found out about my dd. Dh got the most abusive text of her this morning. He has kept her number for some reason but will block it. Again she is dying and she hopes my children end up hating me and she never deserved a horrible daughter like me. Lovely woman my mum.

Glabella

Welcome and congratulations to you on your engagement.

It is NOT your fault your parents are as dysfunctional as they are; you did not make them this way.

I think that regardless of how nicely you told your parents, the two of them would have acted the same and still taken out their inherent ills on you anyway. Given this I would cancel any and all Christmas plans with them, if they can and are behaving this badly they do not get to see any of you. Your mother is complicit in her H's emotional abuse by relying on you to make it all ok.

It may be an idea now to extend the current weekly phone call to phoning now every fortnight or even a once a month call.

Presumably as well they cannot abide your new man now either.

Why do you have any sort of relationship with them at all nowadays given their own behaviour towards you?. What sort of grandparents too are they really to your DD if they are happy to treat you as their daughter with such ill feeling and contempt. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are no different. It could also be argued that they are the root cause of your depression now.

plentyofshoes

My narcissist BIL told us all a few years back that he was dying and had precisely only 16 weeks to live. Its one of their many power and control methods in their arsenal. He's still alive by the way.

Ignore your narcissistic mother and your DH would be well advised to do the same. Radio silence from the two of you is necessary.

This communication from your mother should be reported to his mobile phone provider, that's the only reason that her number should be kept at all. His phone provider should then be able to block her number from his mobile phone, this text message is basically harassment (and possibly also an offence under the Malicious Communications Act of 1988).

Thank you. She is ill (heavy smoker) but the near death thing has been threatened for many years now. She was given a police warning a few years back after a vile letter. She sent a facebook friend request (?!) on my birthday recently now this. If she complains about me to my work again I will have to consider another warning.
She does have very serious mental health issues but this does not excuse her general nasty behaviour.
I am quite hardened to it all, but it has got to me today.

I would report her to the authorities now also given their previous involvement re her sending a vile letter. She has also complained about you to your work as well. There is no justification for such behaviour towards you all and I would have no compunction about reporting such transgressions to the relevant authorities. You would not have accepted this type of dysfunctional crap from a friend either, your mother is no different.

You are right, it has caused me distress so the offence has been committed plus its dv related as she is my mother (unfortunately)
I have to remind myself that what she does is not what a normal mother does.

She sounds awful, plenty of shoes . I agree it's harassment and you should report it.

I'm sitting in a café with hired across the autumnal leaves and the city and having a coffee. Trying to just get through today and tomorrow on an even keel. Sadness hovers but I'm trying to keep it away as I have classes all afternoon and need to be calm and not upset for that. When I feel the sadness I try to think what my therapist would say, I imagine a therapy session with him. It's working mostly. Just today and tomorrow and then I can breathe a bit more easily. The aftermath will have its own challenges but at least I won't be worried about her turning up.

A café with views

Argh cafe

Hi, I just wanted to say hello and kind of introduce myself. I've just read the posts on this page and am like . I don't know why, my mother is the same. I intend to hang around this page in the hopes of learning a bit more, reading advice and general sharing. I hope it will give me the strength to stand up to my mum more and maintain a basic, civil, low contact relationship. I already feel more empowered by reading about people who are non-contact or who are happy with their lives by maintaining a relationship at a 'safe' distance.

I guess I should give you a bit of background, but I really don't know where to start and it would take pages and pages. So I guess the most recent would be a good place to begin. After a tirade of messages/emails etc. a few months ago (nobody cares about me, this family is so dysfunctional, I should never have been a mother etc. stuff) I really surprised myself by for the first time telling her that her behaviour was just absolutely unacceptable and that I would not be able to have a relationship with her if this is what it was going to be like. Cue silence for several days and then a long email. It started with a 'sincere' and heartfelt apology for the first 7 paragraphs. She said that she had a personality disorder, the symptoms of which she had recognised from people in her line of work in herself. This was the explanation for her behaviour. The rest of the email after that was the usual bullshit and totally made the apology null and void because the conclusion was more or less "oh but it was all your fault".

Fast forward to last week (obviously there's been other 'little' things meanwhile) and she suggests we go for counselling. Normal discussion (via text) on this ensues over a couple of days re. arrangements/logistics etc. Then she says "By the way just to say I don't have a diagnosis of mental illness ever. I said that to u as an excuse 4 my behaviour obviously if u have a 'condition' it's excusable. Also it was to get u off my back but obviously it created more questions & demands & thoughts that I might harm your child or whatever. I think the fact that I brought up my kids without harming them is proof I'm not a dangerous psychopath."

Obviously I was pretty angry as it seemed that she had been trying to make amends. I told her that in my book it is not an excuse and that if she doesn't want people on her back she shouldn't keep sending passive aggressive messages. That simple. We had been having a 'normal' conversation until then. Well, clearly that was a mistake on my part as what followed was a tirade of 5 insanely long messages. Main points were- I was insulting her, she was not going to any counselling with me if that was my attitude, I was spoiling her excitement for seeing her DGC when we visit in a couple of weeks, I obviously don't want to see her, it's DGC she feels sorry for, she was so sick and tired of trying to please everyone and wasting her time as nobody is interested, why was she even justifying herself, I (Amyanne) clearly have a lot of burning issues and a deep hatred for her that she can't help me with and I need to see a professional, she is not going to beg anyone, she can't be done with such crap, she has admitted being a crap mother, and has apologised over and over again but still it's not enough, what more do people really want her to do, one of these days enough will definitely be ENOUGH for her to take.

So. That was one week ago and I have not replied. I'm quite new to this journey and from reading on here and other forums, I am realising that there is no point in trying to say anything reasonable to people who are like this.

I just don't know what will happen next. I am not ready to go non-contact (yet).

Sorry the post was so long. And thanks for listening.

Oh and I'm sorry for hijacking other people's current 'dramas' with a random 'all about me' post in the middle of it.

So fair to say a few of us are hoping to be snowed in this Christmas to avoid the drama?

Blimey Amy she sounds exhausting.

I am aiming for NC because being around my mother causes too much anxiety. I admire people who can detach enough to remain civil.

I still don't know if she's going to turn up tomorrow despite DH telling her not to. As a result I am having wave after wave of panic attacks and not sleeping. The plan is to go out with the kids until late. If she turns up we won't be there. DH says he'll tell her to fuck off if she does but he is not in favour of going to a hotel because he shouldn't have to run away from his own house. Actually he laughed a bit about the hotel. Sometimes I forget that he's on my side and that I can trust him.

Welcome Amyanne my mother says a lot of the crap you quoted in your final long paragraph. It's so emotionally draining, isn't it?
Have you read the daughters of narcissistic mother website? Sound slike you might find it interesting and useful reading. Well done for standing up to her, but I wouldn't bother with counselling with her. I think she could do with some serious individual therapy, but there's no point you going with her.

Spiders...snowed in would be fantastic! As long as it lets up long enough for my daughter, son in law and grandson to arrive I'll be happy!

Aaarrgghh...I'm feeling really crappy today, just had an impromptu cry which is very unlike me. I'm not feeling well anyway, pain levels are through the roof. I text my mother last night again to see how she was. I waited all day just to see if she would contact me first, but no...of course not. The previous night I had told her exactly how ill I've been, and was half expecting a text asking how I was feeling. But nothing came, so I text last night, and got a reply saying she had had a couple of pain free hours (thanks to the tramadol my brother had given her, idiot), and that was it. No 'thanks for asking, how are you feeling?'. Why am I surprised? Why was I expecting it? Why do I even want it? I've spent 45 years wanting her to be the kind of mother she should have been; I'm not going to get it now.

My head is all over the place today. I also feel like I have no family at all (birth family that is). Even my sister, who I have always been close to, seems to be siding with my mother...she took more crap than I did as a kid and a teenager (she left home at 14 because she couldn't stand it any longer) but I told her in an email the other day I had had enough and was considering going NC and she hasn't replied. It was an honest letter, telling it like it is, but she's just ignored it. She has always said that I have more balls than her when it comes to dealing with our mother, and that she just can't stand up to her, and it seems that that is true in this instance. I might as well be an orphan only child.

I would dearly love to see a counsellor but I just can't afford it. I'm a single mum, I'm self employed but income has been non existent due to this bloody condition and me not being able to work, and bills need paying etc.

I'm not going to text again to see how she is. She's obviously on the mend, she has her darling boy looking after her, and I have my own health to worry about. She's not asking how I am so why should I keep setting myself up to be hurt?

Sorry, this is a total self pity post, just feeling crap.

x

I'm thinking of you all deal Stately Homers, those that are posting and those that are lurking (as I know there will be). There are so many here I love dearly that are struggling, so just please know that I'm sending you all strength and love and willing you to be able to dig deep and find the strength to get through this.

Please never apologise for posting here, any of you, we all deserve to be heard and the problems/issues of one can help lead the recovery of another.

Needless to say DearFather has not replied to my text. a normal person would be appalled.... It is SOOOO sad.