My mother and her relationship with my son (her grandson)

[theworkofsatan]

I will try to keep this as short as I can.

In May of this year I found out some things about my childhood that my mother had lied to me about, such as where my dad was buried, siblings that I didn't know about, that sort of thing. I also found out that my parents were not married (even though she had told me that they were) and that she had re-registered my birth 4.5 years after I was born to change my name. I only found out all of this because I ordered my birth certificate because I am due to get married next year. I did have a short form birth certificate but I had mislaid it. I am now 40 years old and my dad died when I was 13. I was told that he was cremated but in fact he is buried in Ireland. I did not know this until very recently.

She refused point blank to discuss any of this and basically has ignored me and acted like the injured party since.

Anyway my son (10yo) goes to stay with my mother every summer holiday for six weeks. He loves it. This year she made it very difficult for me to talk to him while he was there and would not tell me what flight home he was on (she was coming back with him, he wasn't on his own). She just said that she would text me when they were back in the country and I could collect him from wherever she was staying, but she wouldn't tell me where this was in advance.

She then contacted my son's dad (who was very, very violent when we were married - the police installed a panic button in my house when we split up) and arranged for him to collect my son from the airport. My ex and I split when my DS was 18 months old. He sees his son every Wednesday and every other Friday night. He was a horrendous husband but a reasonable (if a bit uninvolved father).

I was a bit about this but there was nothing that I could do about it after the event.

Anyway she now phones my son at his childminders (who is also my best friend) and at his dad's house as she has told me that our relationship will never be 'normal' and she just wants a relationship with my DS. She also said that my exh has told her that she can see my DS at her house. She said that she will see my DS whenever she likes and sees no reason to communicate with me about it.

My DS loves his grandma and I don't want to affect that. However I am massively pissed off with her on many levels. She has undermined me with my son since he was born in many ways but I have let it all go because my son loves her. However the fact that she is now colluding with my exh over contact with my DS is, to me, out of order. She knows full well what he put me through and we have very little to do with each other, other than handovers when he returns DS.

Do any of you think that my mother's behaviour is normal and am I unreasonable in being upset with the way that she is?

Your mother is behaving in a very untrustworthy and entitled manner and I don't think it is normal, no. It's a pity but I think DS is going to have to spend his summers elsewhere from now on.

You don't sound at all unreasonable.

Your mother has basically told you she is cutting you out of her life, but wishes to keep a relationship with your son. Whatever her reasons for this, she's pretty much shooting herself in the foot, as her contact with son is invariably going to be effected by this.

I understand you don't want to hurt your son and that you want contact with her to continue, if he wants.

But she is making this quite difficult now. Fine, let her have contact with your son when he is with his Dad. Let him and her arrange it all.

Contact at the childminder, you don't have to agree with that.

6 weeks in the summer? Well, how is she going to arrange that without your involvement and agreement? She isn't.

I'd talk to your son about all this, he's old enough to be able to understand. Let him know your mother has told you that she does not want contact with you any more, you don't know why, but have to respect that. That she does still want contact with him (son) and this will be arranged by his Dad. Tell your son you don't want to put him in a difficult position through any of this and it's his choice how much contact he has with her. As he gets older, that would have been the case anyway.

(I can't see many older children/teens wanting to spend all summer with grannie instead of their friends)

Your mother is toxic.

You have done nothing wrong. There is a long running thread in relationships called Stately Homes. You should have a look there for additional support.

Your mother is behaving atrociously, and sounds like she has been doing so to you for many years.

She may love your DS, and he may love her - but what sort of damage is she likely to inflict upon him, psychologically?

I may be way off the mark here, but I suspect she doesn't like girls/daughters, only boys/sons, and that's why she's going to your ex (male) and wants to stay in touch with your DS (male) but not you. Any chance that might be true?

Thank you for all of your replies. I know that her behaviour is bad but she has a way of making me feel like I'm the one who is in the wrong. She has always been like this. She is very opinionated and woe betide you if you don't agree with her. She is also very good at the 'poor me' routine and I'm sure that my step-dad (who I have always got on with but who hasn't contacted me at all in the last few months) and my step-brothers, have sided with her.

Our relationship has never been easy and as I have got older I can't play her games any more.

I am worried about the effect on my DS. He loves her and he loves his dad. I have tried very hard over the years not to slag off either one of them to DS and to let him make his own mind up. However my mother sees DS as hers and my opinion counts for nothing in her book.

She even had a go at my childminder as she had tried to ring my DS at her house but there was no answer. My childminder explained that she also had other children to look after and that they were not rushing back from the park after school just for a phone call. My mother only sees that she is not getting her own way and she does not see other people's point of view.

Thumb, I also have a brother and the sun shines out of his arse. My step-brothers are also in favour so you could well be on to something there.

TBH, I wouldn't want my DS to be influenced by her in any way - so I agree with previous posters, her 6w stints over the summer holidays should now end (unless it particularly suits you? but I'd still rethink this) and she should only have contact when he's at his Dad's. Get all the bastards seen by your DS at the same time, you know.

Just because she's always had her own way, doesn't mean she should still continue to get her own way - he's your son, not hers, and you're the one that counts.

It doesn't suit me for him to go there in terms of childcare because I pay for that anyway, just in case I need it and to hold his place open. The only thing that stops me from putting a stop to it is my son's reaction to being told that he is not going. He wouldn't have a tantrum or anything but he's quite emotional and sensitive. He hasn't had the best childhood, because of things with his dad, lack of money in our home, moving house several times etc. Going to Spain for the summer is something that he looks forward to, at least at the moment, as he doesn't get any other holidays.

I feel like I'm being undermined by my ex (which is understandable as he is an ex) and my own mother. I feel stupid expecting any kind of loyalty from her. She only wants to see my son, at any price.

The thing is, Satan, that if neither your ex nor your mother value you in any way (and it appears they don't), then there is a possibility that that will rub off on your DS as well, and you really don't want that.

I would definitely limit your DS's stay with his grandmother to a max of 10 days, and at the end of the holiday (so she's not tempted or able to change his flights). I agree as well that he's about the age where he won't want to miss out on seeing his school friends etc. over the entire holiday (my DS1 already whinges about us having to go to the UK for the whole Easter holiday, and he's only 6!).

My mum went NC with her mum when I was born to protect me. It was the right decision.

I don't think it is a good idea for him to go over to her's if she refuses to tell you when he is to be picked up and arranges that your ex do it instead of you.

The fact that she doesn't like to tell you when he is coming home and doesn't like you speaking to him whilst he is there - well, what would happen (god forbid) if he got injured whilst over there?????

Perhaps now is the time to be NC with your mother. You may need to say that your mum is "Not well enough to lok after him" but explain that it means in the head so it is not exactly a lie. If it means he has to miss some sunshine that is hardly the end of the world.

OP, if you haven't already, look up a website called Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers and see how much of it fits your experience of your mother. I'm guessing it will be quite a bit

'However my mother sees DS as hers and my opinion counts for nothing in her book'

This is classic narcissistic thinking. She can't see you as a separate person from her, so whatever is yours is automatically hers. You deserve no respect or consideration in your own right, as far as she is concerned. Its tough shit though because DS is your son, he is 10 years old and very much still a child. So you get the final say about where he spends his time. I agree with other posters that you should seriously limit the amount of time he spends with this woman. She will no doubt be dripping all sorts of poison in his ear about you. She has no respect for you and sounds extremely jealous of you. She is likely using your son as a way to hurt you.

You feel like you are being undermined because you are being undermined. Take back control OP. Its a shame if your son will be upset at having his time limited with her but remember - he is 10 years old, you are his mum and you still do know better than he does what is right for him. If he was 18, it would be different. She sounds like a highly toxic and dangerous person for him to be around. Follow your gut.

She said that she will see my DS whenever she likes and sees no reason to communicate with me about it.

I think you'll find that is illegal.

It is no wonder you ended up with an horrific abuser if your primary years involved a mother like this. There is a direct link - the severity of abuse is a direct match re your mother, your ex.

I'm unfortunately at the other end of your situation - my kids are older and what I brushed off as difficult behaviour from my toxic family has turned out to be far more vicious than I realised at the time. In that they have successfully separated me from my children. I never would have dreamt such a thing could possibly happen - I now realise it was well-advertised, only I ignored it.

Please, do take her clear intentions seriously. As seriously as possible. She is poison through and through; poisonous for you, your little family, your boy . Get the heavies onto this, ie get legal if necessary. I know it is hard but imo you need to cut her out of your lives - she is incapable of healthy relating and will effectively be grooming your boy. She will increase her moves to separate your boy from you, she intends to take your place, to cut you out of your boy's life. As your boy gets older he will be ripe for this; she will exploit his natural resistence to you, his parent; which is a natural, even healthy, developmental stage but she will exploit it for her own ends, to punish you for defying her. She doesn't care about your boy.

Sorry to be dire and sure. I wish there was someone to tell me this, warn me, back in the day. You probably think she just has to be managed, that no such thing could possibly happen. Neither did I but it did.

Another one thinking you have to get control back from your mother. If this woman seriously thinks that men are superior (and everything you have said so far indicates that) I wouldn't let her near any son of mine.

This year she made it very difficult for me to talk to him while he was there and would not tell me what flight home he was on....I would stop the 6 weeks holidays right now. She wants to see her grandson she can come up and stay with you/in a b&b. What kind of person puts a parent through that? Did you make it clear to her how unacceptable that was?

She then contacted my son's dad (who was very, very violent when we were married - the police installed a panic button in my house when we split up) and arranged for him to collect my son...She obviously wants to use him to play her games and she has NO CONCERN/THOUGHT for your sons safety and wellbeing. She is more concerned about 'winning' and now wants to use your ex to pile pressure on you or make accusations of you being a bad mum - all this will be used as 'evidence', that's why she is doing this. she's setting you up OP - be warned.

Anyway she now phones my son at his childminders (who is also my best friend)...wtf?! So she's made it clear that you, as his mother, have NO rights/power/control in this situation and she will deliberately walk all over you. i suggest you tell your childminder to stop giving her updates.

All these should be ringing massive alarm bells for you OP. she is basically undermining your role as a mother, putting your son in the middle of a very emotionally charged situation and using his violent dad as a means of exerting control. STOP THIS NOW! Now you know just how sneaky, underhand, manipulative and scheming she is - and a massive liar to boot - you have every right and reason to minimise or stop contact. Your son can still his grandma - at your house under your supervision only. if she chooses to see him at his dads that's his business but the rest is under your control.

i would have a conversation or better yet, send an email stating exactly how you feel about her actions - both now and about the past. Write about how unacceptable it was re not letting you speak to your son for 6 weeks and then involving his dad. i would do this because you then also have written 'evidence' in case you ever need it to explain why you're minimising/stopping contact. i would also speak to the police about her behaviour because she is dangerous op and you may need to stop her legally from harassing you further down the line.

Completely agree with springydaffs post, especially how your mother's treatment of you had you primed for an abusive relationship as an adult. Start looking after yourself and your son OP. This woman is dangerous for both of you.

She is actively dangerous. I agree wth the others - no going to Spain (can you arrange day trips to the beach, with advance train tickets it can be quite easy to have a day out) and other fun things, the two of you?

Your son is old enough to know why you're doing this. From what you say, he remembers things being unpleasant with your ex so he will appreciate she's undermining you by going to him.

Tell the childminder to give a single answer and use broken record ("you cannot speak with DS when he is under my care." And hang up.)

Good luck OP - do everything you can to minise their contact and influence. I wouldn't be surprised if she wants to write you out of your DS's life too.

Also, remember that even if she threatens to take you to court, as a grandmother she has no legal right to access. So she can threaten all she likes, but for every threat, she'll lose more chance of ever seeing her grandson again.

I would get in touch with SS. You have some concrete examples.

I am with all the others on this thread OP, your mother is a toxic piece of work. Just horrid.

OP, how are you feeling about all the responses you have had on this thread?

Your mother is truly nasty.

I would not trust her with my son.

What kind of freak doesn't tell a child's mother the flight details?

My son would not be seeing her on his own again.

What poison is she dripping in his ear about you?

This is horrendous. I am for you.

And if she wants a relationship with yours then she has to jump through all your hoops. All of them and if she doesn't then that's it. No more. Nothing. Nada. Tell her how it is going to be.