Bah! Ethical questions to myself

[Monny]

Dumb questions going through my head... no doubt due to lack of sleep.

So, when you are in (or think you are in) an emotionally abusive relationship, there are no scars, bruises, etc. You are verbally attacked, but you verbally fight back. If your alleged abuser tells you that you are being a bully, nasty, etc., so how do you know it's not you? I mean really know. I am 95% certain. I have seen things broken and doors undeservingly slammed. I have felt so scared about finances (for no actual reason) that my teeth have literally chattered. However, there's that niggling self-doubt. I'm in no way perfect, the bit of truth in what he says about me...

Right now, I am not even talking to my OH as I have had enough and another debate/argument/change of goal posts is more than I can bare. I am staying back and it's keeping me stronger. However, does staying distant (and keeping myself off the roller coaster/de-stressing) make me as bad as him? I know that I literally suddenly no longer feel depressed, so I think I am right to back off like this, but at the same time I question myself?

Sorry, I think I just needed to write that somewhere.

If you see someone in the street shouting abuse at someone and throwing rocks at them, and the recipient responds "fuck off insert insult here" who's to blame?
There's a reason provocation exists in law. It's not "right" but it is not the same as starting it. It's almost like psychological self defence.

Ultimately it doesn't matter even if you think you're "starting it". If you believe either of you are abusive towards the other, you need to leave.
Don't live a life of misery.

Are you tied down to this man? Relationships aren't supposed to be like that. You're supposed to be happy and loved. He's supposed to bring out the best in you and not make you justify the abuse against you because you're not perfect. I've just come out of an emotionally abusive relationship. He made me feel I deserved what he did to me because I wasn't the perfect partner either. You never deserve that crap. When you get out of a relationship like that you'll realise.

If you think you're in an emotionally abusive relationship, you are. I spent months looking up the definitions of an emotional abusive relationship online and using it as a check list. Why the fck did I wait so long??* I was scared too for so long. Not about being hit, just about everything.

It isn't you, don't worry about that, it really isn't.

Now, how can we help?
You are doing well starting to emotionally retreat and reassess, but please don't live any more of your life like this

Thank you so much for your replies, they are much appreciated. Sorry for my ramble last night, I was really tired and should have explained better. I am at the point of filling in the divorce papers and as a Mum with only a PT job, I'm not entirely sure what path my life will take next.

After 18 years, I am pretty sure my DH is narcissistic (an amateur diagnosis, so not a proper label). It would explain a lot. But at the same time, much as I realise it's him, he is my only feedback on my behaviour in this relationship. So much as I know in my heart what I need to do, I find part of me self-checking myself and saying 'could it be me?'

I guess I am just belly button fluffing. I must stop procrastinating (lets face it, brave face or not), get to a point where I can hand him those forms and see what life does next [sigh] Part of me wonders if I can do it/part of me knows I can.

Thank you -right, lets get dressed for school run!

There's a bit of a myth among women who are abused that if they 'give as good as they get' it's either not really abuse or it's not harmful.
Ask yourself, would you scream and shout and swear if he didn't do it first? Is this how you usually relate to people, or is it his behaviour that brings it out in you?
Just because you 'fight back' doesn't make you abusive and of course withdrawing from the abuse doesn't make you a bad person, it's self preservation.

whatever the situation: if someone is telling the other they are abusive and it's entrenched, the pair generally need to separate for a time so that you can read up on abusive behaviour an on good relationship behaviour and get some perspective away from each other. Navel gaze with a practical eye, so's to speak.

This is particularly useful as some abusive people simply don't see that they are and others deliberately accuse the other partner of it. Being caught up in a pile of mindgames like that fogs your mind.

Thanks very much for your replies. I think it's such an insidious thing. I have stopped and looked back, back, back and reminded myself of the original jealous behaviour that came from no where, his inability to cope with me not answering my phone every time he called (would never ignore him, but he would call at commute time when it was v.noisy and part of journey was on Tube!) So now I am hopefully going to stop questioning the whys, rights and wrongs, and work out the practicalities (apologies in advance for more questions and as I get wiser I can help others more too)

If you are questioning yourself, do you want to tell us in detail half a dozen scenarios that make you wonder so we can all assess them a bit and give our opinions? I know I can be a snotty cow at times, especially when I am under stress. I say sorry though if I think it's justified, let us have it perhaps? Can't bead MN for a bit of honest to goodness honesty!

Ah thanks, but I think I have just been insulted too many times and had my head messed with for too long. Seriously, he can changes the laws of science to suit his views, but it does get to your head. I was v.tired when I originally posted. Seriously, in cold light of day, withdrawing from someone who has behaved like this is to be expected, not abuse. Normally, I cannot get the emotional strength to do half of what I have achieved in the last few weeks. I actually have stopped wishing I didn't exist. I actually want to live and have dreams. Standing up for myself isn't bullying.

It's true. Standing up for yourself is not bullying.
Remember, just because someone says something, it doesn't mean it is true, or reasonable, or something you should spend time thinking about.

Anyone can talk nonsense, and some people are very practised at it. So trust yourself and your instincts.

And whatever you're doing to free yourself, keep doing it. Keep living and having dreams.

I had counselling after I left EA ex. It really helped me to sort things through in my head iyswim.

Questioning yourself all the time was my reality too for a long time. Its amazing how much weight is lifted from your shoulders when you LTB

Thank trackrBird. My instincts say run, run, run, so I must find a way. I have mostly filled in the divorce forms, and making an attempt at gathering all financial info. I can (tho' I'm not sure I'll ever get a full picture as he reads and shreds). Anything else I should be doing?

Try to get some real life support, from friends, family, Women's Aid. If you talk to people you might be surprised at who will support you.
And as Ipanema suggests, think about booking a counsellor. This will help you focus on your new life, and detoxify you from some of the mind bending effects of abuse.
Stay strong and keep going