If you had/have a very critical mother, and then you had a daughter.....

[ZombiePartridge]

....how do you think your background affects your parenting, if at all?

I am one of two girls and our mother (who died earlier this year) was a hypercritical nightmare when we were children. We were always too fat (me), too slobby (my sister), too stupid (both of us) to be a source of pride to her, or at least so we were told. She doted on men and boys and had a very definite case of man-reverence, so I am positively convinced that she would have not been the same with a son. She did change a bit in later life and try to be affectionate, but it was very very hard to trust her by that point and it didn't really work, for me anyway.

I now have two sons of my own and my family is complete, so don't expect to ever have a daughter. I realised that my thinking was a bit fucked up in baby groups, when I would look at the other mothers doting over their daughters and feel faintly surprised that they felt so affectionate towards their girls. I half-expected them to ignore the girls or at least treat them with reluctant acceptance whilst reserving all true fuss for the boys.

I realise this is a bizarre thing to think, but it was my automatic thought then. It still is now, sometimes, if I'm honest. I make a deliberate effort to be nice to daughters of my friends, because I'm conscious that my attitude is not normal or healthy.

I also remember looking at a mum and her teenage daughter in a supermarket once - they were at the till ahead of me and I noticed that the daughter resembled her (pretty) mum in terms of face and figure. I looked at the mum and thought 'I bet you'd HATE her if she was fat.' That wasn't a nice or necessarily true thing to think

I am seeing a counsellor at the moment so this topic has and will continue to come up, but it would be interesting to get other perspectives.

I wasn't sure where to post this (seemed a bit brutal for Parenting) so here it is in Relationships.

I think awareness and mindfulness is a key point to changing automatic behaviour.

Good luck with your counselling, it can be fantastic to explore deeply held brainwashed beliefs in a safe and challenging place.

Enjoy your boys, and later on, their wives!

My mother was/is like that as well as other things which is why I have been NC with her for 7 years.

I have two DDs and I absolutely adore/love/am proud of them and they get told this regularly along with lots and lots affection.

My mother is similar to this, and I am the complete opposite. I adore my daughters and spoil them rotten

First of all, I'm so sorry that your moms behaviour is still impacting on you, hugs.
My own mother was a critical witch who set out what she considered to be "the way to be". Any deviation from this would result in being ignored, derided etc I don't remember her ever telling me she loved me, hugging me or showing any affection. For years I stuck to her ideals but even that wasn't good enough, and she started to change the goal posts so it was impossible for me to achieve anything. My brother was allowed to behave appallingly and I was expected to put up with the abuse.
Etc etc

I broke away from this in my late teens and she died when I was 25. I'm now 41 and have an amazing daughter. My daughter is brilliant, a truly wonderful young lady :)

Her parenting has resulted in me being the complete opposite. I encourage my dd, I support her. I have no expectations for her, as long as she is happy then that is good enough for me. My mothers critical thinking is still foremost in my thoughts and opinions about myself though (I'm stupid, fat, useless etc) I am, and will probably always be, screwed up but I am proud that I have broken the cycle with regards to my own dd :)

I don't know if this answers your question, but thought I'd give you my perspective. I hope your counselling goes well x

I have a ridiculously critical mother. It's a great source of anxiety for me. We don't see each other as much as we used to, but when we do see each other I have nervous breakdowns. Our relationship is a terrible, dysfunctional power trip and I can't have it in my life, yet find it hard to walk away for good.

I have a DD and I love her more than anything in the world. She's very young, but I can't imagine ever feeling like she's not good enough, let alone telling her so.

I think it's because I know she's not an extension or reflection of me. She's my DD, and definitely her own little person. For that, I love her.

I don't think my mother has ever thought of me, or my sister, as anything other than "hers." Something she owns. So she loves us the same way she loves her house, her garden...because she owns it.

Sorry for the tangent. Hope it kind of makes sense.

My mother was similar and I am NC. I have two darling boys' and have been jealous of the lovely relationships I see mothers have with their DDs, particularly my adult friends and their mothers. I feel I was robbed

I am now expecting a DD and having wobbles that I will fuck her up as my mother did me, but I think because I am aware I will try my best to avoid her nastiness, I am not by nature a nasty person anyway, and love them because they are my children rather than develop a jealousy of her, which is what I suspect was my mothers problem, along with her hating my bio father.

My mother was like this. She never told my sister and I that she loved us, or showed us any affection. We were pushed almost to breaking point to achieve achieve achieve, which we dutifully did. When I was in my late 30s she confessed to me she didn't actually like me until I was an adult. I don't think she likes kids generally, and is very uncomfortable around them. That makes me sad for her, but she isn't a bad person, and is now a very good and supportive mum.

It has made me incredibly close and loving to my own dd. She's only a toddler so the age where I can cuddle her, tell her I love her, and be as close a mum as I can be to her without it being embarrassing for her! I think we all learn from our own parents mistakes, and successes, and our kids will in turn learn from ours.

My mum is a good person at heart, but she is horribly angry and bitter. Even on a nice day she makes constant snidey "jokes".

I just try not to do it with my girls. That's all I can do. When I start to hear the same nagging criticism in my voice I try to counteract it with other positive comments.

I also try to have fun with my girls. My mum did do stuff with us as kids but would often be in a silent fury the entire time. You could almost see the steam rising from her ears.

Thank you for all the kind responses - I was half expecting to be called a total freak

I think it's because I know she's not an extension or reflection of me. She's my DD, and definitely her own little person. For that, I love her. I don't think my mother has ever thought of me, or my sister, as anything other than "hers." Something she owns. So she loves us the same way she loves her house, her garden...because she owns it.

MummyBeerest, mine was exactly the same!!

I am now expecting a DD and having wobbles that I will fuck her up as my mother did me, but I think because I am aware I will try my best to avoid her nastiness

HerRoyalNotness I think awareness is everything. I'm sure you will be a lovely mum to your girl.

This is really interesting to read. My mother shares some of these characteristics - fairly judgemental, closed minded, saw me and Dsis as a complete reflection of herself and worried greatly about judgement from others - which would lead to extreme reactions to any unwanted behaviour/appearance. Also big focus on food/weight and negative treatment of Dsis when she was overweight as a child. It may sound odd, but aside from these traits she was and is very well meaning - she encouraged our ambition, gave practical support and would often say she loved us and give lots of praise especially for academic achievement etc. It did all feel quite conditional though - on us being clever, well-behaved, slim, whatever. She never did the male preference thing - I think a son would have got exactly the same treatment!

The upshot of my relationship with her was that I suffered badly with PND after dd was born and at the time felt completely incapable of being a good mother to her. I regularly have little worries now about messing her up and us ending up with a poor relationship (though most of the time I feel I'm doing fine). My parenting approach is very different to that of my parents. She's only 2 so early to say but I certainly try to be much more accepting and open minded and to see her as her own person. If anything I maybe tend to go too far the other way and have to remind myself that she does need boundaries - not everything has to be gently negotiated! My biggest hope is that we continue to have a close relationship as she grows up and that she doesn't feel about me how I feel about my own mother.

I think because you haven't had girls you haven't had to face these thoughts head on. I'm sure, given the self-awareness you show in your OP, if you had had a girl you would have loved her and fought with the beliefs your mum gave you and put a lot of effort into not being like her.

It's good that you're getting help with it, for yourself and also to avoid passing on to your sons any belief that girls are inferior.

My mother was/is this way. I often imagine how I will treat my daughter when she is older and various scenarios which might come up.

There are many things, but just as an example:

When I was six, I used to ask my mother: "Am I beautiful?" And she used to say "Not really," with a tone of detached, deliberate "blunt honesty." I used to say "Am I nice?" and she would reply. "I'm afraid you're not. You're selfish and you've ruined my life."

I just cannot imagine a state of mind where my any future daughter I may have asks me these questions and I am okay with giving those responses and letting her internalise them.

Yet I'm aware that I internalised every one of these sorts of comments from her growing up and there was never any counter balance.

On some level it makes me incredibly jealous of a potential daughter. Which is not a good thing in itself!

This is all very interesting - especially the awareness and mindfulness stuff. It's not quite the same thing as my DM was not overtly critical, but is instrinsically negative and pessimistic about absolutely everything and it has really impacted on my DSis and I.

While she is lovely and caring and wants to help and be a support to us, almost everything we do, say, or suggest elicits a negative reaction. It's hard to describe - it's not a deliberate sabotage, but just the way she operates is to focus immediately on the negative - eg I got engaged, her first comment was about whether I was sure I wanted to sign up to a lifetime of being the main earner; I showed her the wedding dress I had chosen, the first comment was how there were probably more flattering styles; I got pregnant, her first comment was about whether I was healthy enough. I am sure it is borne out of her very crippling anxiety as well as being a natural personality trait but it has left an impact.

I am determined not to always be the voice of negative naysaying for my DC, but to meet their enthusiasm with genuine enthusiasm and most importantly to share their joy. I don't think my DM has ever been joyful.

My mother was always very critical of myself and my younger brother. We were given food and shelter but no physical/verbal affection at all. Elder brother was the golden child, everything we did was a disappointment compared to him.

Having a daughter has made me more aware of just how bad things were growing up. I look at my child and I cannot see anything other than how amazing and beautiful she is, I cannot understand how a mother could dislike her own children so much when she chose to bring us into the world

I make sure I do not criticise or ridicule my DD , but also remember to tell her how proud I am of her and give her lots of hugs and kisses. I want her to know she is loved. I do not want her to grow up with the anxiety and low self esteem that I developed from my upbringing.

Totally agree with OhFrabjous by the way, that some of your ongoing worry is probably just that you haven't had to face the situation in a direct sense by having a daughter. And also that having so much awareness of your own behaviour and your mother's behaviour patterns must surely make it much less likely that the behaviour will be repeated.

My DM has always been super critical of me and my two DSis and she definitely isn't like that with our DBro. I think she sees us an extension of her rather than separate beings.

I was a size 18 like her, am now 8/10. She still refers to us both having the same "unfortunate" figure & is always giving me clothes she's bought, saying she's sure a size 18 would fit me because of my big bum. She's very critical about every part of me - I went to Cambridge Uni but apparently I lack intelligence and I regularly get reminded she wouldn't have thought I was capable of doing my job.

It drives DP nuts, his parents worship him and my DM's behaviour baffles him.

I will be instilling my DDs with so much confidence! I'd never make them feel they aren't good enough.

I'm extremely conscious of it. My mother is a narcissist in my opinion, totally self absorbed and hyper critical, particularly of me (third and youngest child). Have you visited the stately homes thread? Lots of helpful stuff on there.

I remember once being utterly utterly shocked to my core the first time I saw a mother being genuinely loving and affectionate to her daughter, a friend of mine.

It's very sad, and has taken me years to come to terms with. Having my own children helped. I have a ds and a dd and although I do worry that some of my mother will spill out in me (inevitable in some way I suppose), I am now absolutely sure I won't be like her as far as criticism goes because I have empathy, the most important asset in these circs, IMO. Walking in other peoples shoes. If my mother had done that, well, it would've been a different story.

And you're not a freak you're beautiful and clever and lovely

My mum was/is very similar to a lot of the mums described here. With her though, I find it more surprising because her mother was exactly the same with her.
My uncle was the golden boy who could do no wrong, nor need ed to lift a finger, whereas my mum was expected to do all the housework with little more than criticism, belittling and derision. From my DGM.
Skip forward a generation and it is amazing how many of my DGMs methods have been re-enacted by my DM. Both I and DSis have been bullied and verbally abused by DM (myself to the point of anorexia and self-harm as a teenager) both expected to do the lions share of any chores etc, while brothers weren't even expected to have to make their own packed lunch.

Unfortunately there's a 15 year age gap between me and my sister, so we couldn't even share the load. It has meant, however, that I have been able to be a supportive adult shoulder for DSis while DM has been at her worst with her.

I now have a DD who I love more than he world, although it has been difficult. I will admit to having no particular feelings for her until she was a few months old. I'm not sure if it was PND or PTSD, but I felt numb where the love should have been.
I have resolved to break the cycle also though, and often tell her how proud I am of her and how much I love her. I try very hard not to be critical or judgemental and encourage her in her achievements - something that i was denied by DM.

As for DM and me, I am trying not to take her character flaws personally. They don't reflect my actual worth as a human being, just her own issues. I don't want us to go the same way as her and DGM and be bitterly out of contact at the end.

I hope that your counselling hoes well, I think that understanding the source of the issues is halfway to solving them. Well done on your progress so far.

To everyone else with disappointing mothers. Hugs.

I can totally relate to some of the things you say. When I see teens out shopping and doing things with their Mum I am a always surprised by it, I never wanted to do anything with my Mum, never knew when she'd kick off. I remember aged 5 we went away with my Dad's brother and his wife and each day my Mum and my Aunt took turns to walk us children up the beach to collect shells. I didn't wasn't to go on my Mum's day because nothing was fun with her it was all just waiting for the next telling off or slap.

My ex MIL is ferociously loyal to all her dc and she and her daughters talk to each other as equals, that confuses me too, my Mum loves slagging me off and gets in a mood if we have a difference of opinion.

Wow what a helpful and insightful thread, thanks for starting it OP.

Reading the posts many of them could have been written by me.

Hard to describe my mum's appalling parenting as outwardly she was a very 'good' mother and even on the inside a lot of what she did came from a place of love and wanting the best for us. Trouble was it was (still is) HER best - what SHE thinks is important. Also her love was conditional on us behaving perfectly - at home as well as out, she simply DID NOT TOLERATE naughtiness, Armageddon of screaming and bullying would erupt if we got out of line - and on being a good 'show' with academic results etc.

When I found out I was having a DD rather than a DS, I was in shock and cried for 2 weeks. Sorry to admit that but its true.

I always saw myself as a mother of a boy, I just didn't see how I could ever be a good mother to a daughter, I was convinced I would end up making her frightened of me and disliking me the same way I feel about my mum :(

OK so far she is only 20m old so she hasn't had time to dislike me yet (!) but I have been amazed at how natural I have found it being a loving, gentle, patient mother to her (am not saying i am perfect, far from it, but I know for sure I am at least avoiding the mistakes my mum made). And DD is a high-maintenance little lady so she really can try my patience some days but I would NEVER yell at her or get cross with her for disturbing my equilbrium the way my mum did with me (yes even at that young age). My mum still can't cope with ANY displays of emotion from her daughters that aren't just total serenity and happiness (she on the other hand is allowed to be in hysterical rages, or bad moods, or silent furies, whenever she likes!) and she can't even tolerate three seconds of toddler crankiness from DD, which is sad as she actually does love DD in her own way.

anyway, great thread, v interested to read other similar experiences and I think it goes to show that being aware of your parenting while, hopefully, still being able to relax, is the best way to break the cycle.

Oh and years of counselling helped too :)

Marking my place

fairly judgemental, closed minded, saw me and Dsis as a complete reflection of herself and worried greatly about judgement from others - which would lead to extreme reactions to any unwanted behaviour/appearance. Also big focus on food/weight and negative treatment of Dsis when she was overweight as a child.

Oh SHIT yes. This^^

I remember once being utterly utterly shocked to my core the first time I saw a mother being genuinely loving and affectionate to her daughter, a friend of mine.

For a long time I found affection between family members (other families to mine) frankly odd. I'd go home and talk in wondering tones about how they all played BOARD GAMES together and my parents and sister would all look bemused at the thought.

I still sometimes feel like I'm pretending to be a nice parent, like it's all play-acting and ludicrous to behave this way. I keep expecting my kids to look at me and say 'Mummy, this isn't you really' and then go off on their own to their rooms, away from me. They're only 2 and 3, it's quite unlikely that they do actually think that but it's a hard feeling to shake

But I do just find it overwhelmingly weird when women talk about having good relationships with their mums. I never had that, really, and find the notion of depending on a woman for emotional comfort very strange.

My DH is very understanding, all things considered......