Question re. life insurance

[textingdisaster]

I have posted about this issue before but am coming at it from a slightly different stance.

H has in the past refused to get life insurance. Even when I have offered to pay for it. This makes me feel uneasy as I am a SAHM to three dc and certainly couldn't afford the mortgage were he to die or become incapacitated. I am trying to get back to work but even earning what I think I could earn, I wouldn't be able to cover the outgoings (also not sure what they are as h looks after all of that while I pay for all food, occasional holidays and all things dc related).

Have recently been feeling a little more confident and have come to the conclusion that he does not have the right to veto life insurance especially in light of the fact that we would be protecting the dc. So am going to bring it up in a relaxed, casual am going to check out the cost of it kind of way as am worried about not being able to look after the dc should anything happen, and see what he says. In the past however these conversations have not gone well.

He is averse to the cost of insurance and also thinks insurance is a racket. I agree with that but still need to feel a bit more secure about the future.

Am wondering why he wouldn't actually want to make sure the dc were okay if he could no longer work ??

Now you're in the realms of 'personality change' and that is a futile ambition. You will not get someone to value you when they hold you so clearly in contempt and believe you are irrelevant. You will not get someone to change behaviour when they have zero motivation and there are zero consequences to carrying on as they are.

Value yourself first and foremost. Demand equal treatment. Don't take no for an answer.

Its hard enough to even change just one aspect of your own behaviour, therefore him changing his own behaviour is simply not going to happen. He is as happy as a clam really and there is no will to change. Such attitudes as well are deeply ingrained and likely learnt from one or both his own parents.

Children learn about relationships first and foremost from their parents, what is being taught to them here by the two of you?. You do not want to teach them that a loveless marriage is their "norm" because they could well go onto repeat this themselves.

I've only skim read the thread so will only answer the life assurance query - there are better relationship experts than me about!

You can put cover in place on him, best way would be that you take out the policy on his life, you pay the premium, and any proceeds go to you (that policy structure is called 'life of another').

However, he has to sign health questions and data protection declarations.

The policy and all proceeds are yours and he cannot change or cancel the policy - your signature is all that is required to do so.

A married couple can insure one another as it is assumed that they are automatically financially dependent on one another.

Even if you separate, it is possible to make putting life cover in place a condition of a separation agreement. Do it the same way as outlined above so that he can't mess you around and cancel the cover.

As for the amount of cover, insurance companies usually use a multiple of salary, up to the date the youngest child will cease being financially dependant.

So if salary is 20K, youngest child is 10, and you assume they will finish college at 24, you can put 280K cover in place. Add on any debts too, and go double check is your mortgage covered - here in Ireland it's a legal condition that you have to have life cover on your mortgage on your home, not sure of the UK position.

Go talk to an insurance broker, they will have come across this situation before and may be able to help you get this in place.

Thanks for all the information little. I am going to broach the subject with h. Because of all the relationship issues we have had I think he finds the idea of my taking life insurance out threatening. As of the next thing I will be doing is lacing his tea with arsenic.

No I really don't want my dc to have loveless marriages so I struggle with this attila.

Am working on valuing myself Cogito and am trying to get some support to do this Cogito.

I suppose "my" money would go in to the joint pot if we were to split (though "h's" money would make up the bulk of the pot) which would be ok.

I think it would be much easier if relationships did not have a financial element to them!!

Didn't mean to say Cogito twice .

The second to last paragraph is in response to Hampton's message.

Thanks for all your thoughts.

"I think it would be much easier if relationships did not have a financial element to them!!"

It would be much easier if people didn't end up in relationships with grasping bastards who treat them as a liability ....

I agree with the fact that he thinks I am a liability but I don't think he is grasping as such. More that he feels completely alone and is trying to protect himself.

Speaking as someone recently widowed in my 40s I urge you to get some sort of life cover in place. I thought it would never happen to us, it was very sudden and unexpected.
The fact that we had wills and life cover in place has made a difficult time a little less frightening. Ive also got life cover of £200, 000 until my youngest turns 18. It costs £12 a month and I don't notice it leaving my account.

Honestly when the unthinkable happens its a godsend. I work pt but am investing a lot of the money for our future after all I may live another 30/40 years.

Thank you leakingwellies. I am really sorry about the death of your partner .

When you say you have life insurance until your youngest is 18, do you mean for them to claim should something happen to you?

I agree with everything you have said. My problem will be what to do if h once again refuses when I have got the courage to bring the issue up again.

Is this something that I would be justified in calling things a day over ? Which seems to back up h's position if in one breath I am wanting to set things up securely and in another I am thinking of divorce.

I wish you all the best leaking .

He is selfish. He is not alone, he has a family. He is entitled to protect himself but not at your expense. He doesn't value you. He dismisses your contribution.

This is not about insurance (these threads never are). This is about attitude. Best not to make more excuses for him but challenge the attitude

If you've been married 17 years and he still hasn't learned to value you, or even to dissociate you in his mind from the ex who got "his" house even longer ago, then it's not terribly likely he ever will, is it?

It doesn't back up your husband's position that you are in two minds. You are insecure in the relationship, insecure about your financial future and he is adding to your insecurity through his secrecy and mistrust. You are not being unreasonable to want security.

Married for 13 but together for 6 years before that so 19 years all together.

I agree that there is an ingrained attitude which I can't change. There is an outside chance he will agree to the life insurance however which would already make me feel better and more secure.

You are not being unreasonable to want security. Thanks cogito.

And it's true that he dismisses my contribution .

Hi OP. I do appreciate your reluctance to appear grasping and I assure you I don't think that at all.

What I meant was, if this relationship is going to end, and it doesn't sound great, then if you split now, you get 50% of marital assets now, plus 100% of your "inheritance". Whereas if you leave it but do end up splitting after you inherit then you will have to share it with him.

There is something a little sad and defeated in your posts OP that really makes me feel for you. I hope you get a resolution that makes you happier, whatever you choose to do.

Yes, you sound despondent.

Why don't you go to a solicitor to see what the financial situation would be if you divorced (although this would be limited information due to lack of knowledge of DH's finances). Probably you could also discuss the need for life insurance.

And go to Citizen's Advice or similar to see what benefits you might be entitled to if you separated.

Once you have knowledge of what the situation could be it is easier to be less panicky when thinking about the future. And a better position for making decisions.

Thanks Hampton and dozie.

I understand what you mean Hampton. I suppose the whole inheritance thing seems very much in the future (touch wood). Ideally h and I can get to a better place in terms of relating to each other. Mistrust is very present between us however, and h's touchy and defensive nature does not help.

(However when we go through awful patches I spend a lot of time thinking we really need to get divorced but not seeing how I personally could do it without really damaging my kids and maybe myself too).

I went to see a solicitor during a bad patch earlier on this year dozie so I have a general understanding of what would happen if we split up. She was full of advice not realising that some things are easier said than done (things like declaring interest in the house with the Land Registry). Haven't been to see CAB yet so could do that.

texting I feel so sad for you.

In my relationship, dh did not want to talk about life insurance or wills, or the fact that our 'shared' money was in an account which solely belonged to him. However I am fortunate that in my situation the problem was caused only by his laziness, his distrust of insurance companies, his hatred of legal fees, his trust in the inherent good nature of others, and the belief that we would both live forever

When I sat him down and explained exactly what might happen if he, or I, were incapacitated or dead, and when I told him how scared and worried it made me, he agreed that we should do all the right things. In our case that was taking out life insurance for me, short-term to cover our mortgage, because I am self employed (dh has a generous 'death in service' work cover so no need to do that for him); we have wills (probably a lawyer's nightmare, but still properly done and witnessed); we have reassigned where our money sits so both of us can access it now and could access it if the other were incapacitated or dead. And life continues and nothing much has changed.

But because of dh's reluctance to do any of it, it was a long and tough process of nagging and explaining and facing uncomfortable feelings and thoughts.

But it was made possible because we are in a loving, equal and trusting relationship.

That is not where you are, and so I suggest that you get some financial advocacy, someone who can spell out to your dh how HE would struggle if you were incapacitated or dead, and spell out how your CHILDREN would be left unsupported if he were incapacitated or dead.

Insurance can be a scam, but people pay insurance for freezers, computers, boiler repairs, all sorts of nonsense..... (and all this for something you can replace for a few hundred quid - or even do without) In comparison life insurance is damn cheap...

I'm still paying the premiums for the joint life insurance policy my ex-wife and I took out when we first had a mortgage. The way I see it I mostly still have it so that it will pay out for our daughter in the case that either of her parents dies - providing some support for her when we're not around to do so.

There have been some cases of companies taking out life insurance on their employees, even without their knowledge, so it's perfectly legitimate for you to insure your husbands life - but the insurer would want him to answer the health questions which makes it a bit tricky.

Does he have a pension? Many pension schemes come with some sort of life insurance built-in.

Can I also add that if he dies while there's still a mortgage on the property, and you can't afford to take over the mortgage or there's no insurance to cover it, the lender can repossess and you may be homeless. This would be the case even if you were on the deeds because there would be a debt outstanding on it which you couldn't pay. I know this because this is my situation, although DH has enough insurance to clear the mortgage and I'd then inherit the house under the terms of his will. You really need to protect yourself. Good luck.

Honestly? I think your DH sounds like he's not worth hanging around for, generally.

He doesn't value you, your contribution, or your opinion.

Maybe some perspective - XDP and I both have life assurance through work. Despite being split, we continue to put each other as the trustees for this (DS as the eventual recipient at 18) because we want what's best for DS. If not for you, if not for the DC, then for who? Your DH is being selfish - but I think that's just a symptom of a wider issue.

Not saying LTB, but do think hard about the relationship. Some things are easier said than done, but you can do things in small steps. A form here, a call there, building your future security and giving you some leverage, which imho you need.

Texting Thank you for the flowers.

Yes if I die before my youngest dc turns 18 then my 3 dcs get to claim £200k to be split equally. They know where all the documents are kept and what to do (I've written everything down-bank accounts, passwords etc). This year has been a steep learning curve for us all and I feel better knowing they won't need to panic about money if im not around.

Your dh sees insurance as a racket..tell him it's a safety net and the younger you are the cheaper your premiums will be.

I'm sure you can insure your dhs life and also check if you have 'term assurance' linked to your mortgage. I wish you well.

Thank you very much for all your most recent messages. I am touched by the amount of effort people have put into their posts (and have read them all carefully).

I will slowly start chipping away at all the things I need to do, as you suggest buffy.

The fact that people who are separated manage to discuss things like life insurance and future security for their children really puts my "relationship" into context .

What do I do however, if having again broached the issue, h again refuses? It will be checkmate and I will (mentally) be left with nowhere to go. This is why I have to build up to all of this and do it from a confident position.

I don't think h has a pension though he has recently taken out a small annuity as a single person.
I don't know if there is term assurance linked to the mortgage and would have to ask h. Any conversation about this is dificult however as he is very suspicious of motive.

I am essentially living like a child . I have to trust him completely (he could after all sell the house from under my nose not that I think he would) while he is in the opposite position of holding the strings.