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Original poster

Can alcohol ever be an excuse for cheating?

32 replies

destroyedandanonymous · 13/10/2014 20:48

My OH cheated on me and said she was so drunk she don’t know how or why it happened. Is this possible?

OP posts:
Vitalstatistix · 13/10/2014 20:52

If she was that drunk that she did not know what was happening, then she was unable to give consent and it is rape. Is that what she is saying? That she has no memory of it and did not make a choice? Or is she suggesting that someone did something to her drink and that's why she doesn't know how or why?

Or is it that she had a few drinks and made a choice which she was in control of but says that she only did it because she'd had a drink?

The issue of consent and massive quantities of alcohol is a big one. If she was so drunk that she didn't understand what she was doing, did she have capacity to consent.

However, on the issue of alcohol alone, it is a dis inhibitor, not a personality changer. You couldn't choose to do anything that it is against your nature to do. So you wouldn't, for example, steal if you were totally morally against stealing. you wouldn't beat someone up if the core of you was pacifist. etc etc.

But that is about your choices and not things that were done to you.

So it really depends what happened, tbh.

Original poster
destroyedandanonymous · 13/10/2014 21:06

Let’s just say she was a willing participant.

OP posts:
ReallyOTT · 13/10/2014 21:07

No

Fairenuff · 13/10/2014 21:12

she was so drunk she don’t know how or why it happened

If that is true there is no way she could have consented.

Meerka · 13/10/2014 21:38

If she willingly got that drunk then the responsibility for the consequences and what she did or didnt do are hers too.

It's the same as a man raping someone and saying 'it was because I was drunk!" It's absolutely no excuse at all.

If her drinks were spiked then it could be a different matter.

Fairenuff · 13/10/2014 21:48

Even if she willingly got drunk, it does not mean that she willingly consented to sex. The alcohol might have made her unable to consent because she was so out of it.

MeMyselfAnd1 · 13/10/2014 21:57

I'm with Meerka. If she got that drunk out her own choice, she is responsible for the consequences of her own actions and lack of self control.

At the end of the day, we don't go around excusing all people that caused accidents while driving under the influence, on the lame excuse that they were drunk.

And yes, she may have not consented, but what if the guy she had sex with was equally plastered? Is she a rapist? I don't think so. Drinking responsibly extends beyond "don't drink and drive"

Fairenuff · 13/10/2014 22:01

I'm with Meerka. If she got that drunk out her own choice, she is responsible for the consequences of her own actions and lack of self control.

Yes but that does not mean that she can't be raped. Come on, you know this. If a woman is too plastered to give consent, that is rape.

It's not the same as drunk driving. No-one does that to you.

And no, she can't be a rapist because she doesn't have a penis.

Meerka · 13/10/2014 22:03

If you knowingly take a mindaltering substance in quantities that make you act in ways that you wouldn't when sober, I'm afraid it's your responsibility.

Alcohol and other drugs are known disinhibitors and sleeping with someone not your OH is a very hurtful thing to do. Forgiveable? Maybe yes, but that person has quite a problem with alcohol if they're getting that far that they're sleepign with people they wouldn't otherwise.

Fairenuff · 13/10/2014 22:08

Being raped is not 'acting' though is it. It is something that is done to you. What you are saying Meerka is that any woman who gets very drunk should not complain if she is raped whilst 'out of it'. Surely you know that's not right?

OP hasn't given enough information in this particular instance, but in general if a woman cannot give consent, for whatever reason - drugs, alcohol, knock on the head - it is rape. That is fact. Sex without consent is rape.

Meerka · 13/10/2014 22:14

oh god, not that old argument.

No ofc it's not right if someone is raped Hmm. That's a crime and a vile, desperately destructive.

In return, do you think it's ok for someone to (willingly) take a substance that they know can get themselves into a state so that they cannot consent to sex? Or are you saying that it doesn't matter if someone has sex if they are drunk? Never mind the consequences to other people, of course

Meerka · 13/10/2014 22:18

It'd be really great if there was a total get-out-of-jail card for avoiding consequences < wistfully> Sadly I don't think there is. It's bad enough when being (willingly) blind drunk means you get hurt, it's worse when other people get hurt as a consequence, whether that's sleeping with people you shouldn't or falling over the crib and hurting your baby or drink driving or whatever.

Fairenuff · 13/10/2014 22:20

In return, do you think it's ok for someone to (willingly) take a substance that they know can get themselves into a state so that they cannot consent to sex?

Why should that even have to be a consideration for a woman who chooses to drink or take drugs? No it's not a great idea to get shit faced but it happens.

I am only going on what the OP has stated: 'she was so drunk she don’t know how or why it happened. Is this possible?'

Yes. It's entirely possible. There are men who would have sex on a woman who was too drunk to consent. Who would have sex on a woman who was unconscious through drink. It happens. It's still rape.

Original poster
destroyedandanonymous · 13/10/2014 22:30

She was conscious.

Was there conscious consent is what I suppose I’m struggling with.

OP posts:
Meerka · 13/10/2014 22:31

it happens ... so .... you get drunk and you have abdicated all responsibility for whatever happens?

Or do you, when blind drunk, bear responsibillity for hurting other people by neglect (forgetting to feed a baby) or by accident but not for any sexual conduct?

It's a weird scale where the fact that you willingly took the first drink, fifth drink and 15th drink until you don't know what you're doing means that you bear responsibility in some areas and not others. The consequences in any case are that other people get hurt. In this case the OP unless it was all a hypothetical situation.

Meerka · 13/10/2014 22:35

If she was conscious then it may all have been so blurred that consent was a meaningless term, as fairenuff says ... even if I think that it's simplistic to say that if you take a disinhibitor, you don't have some responsibility for that.

More pragmatically, if it's a one-off you'll have to decide if you can live with it especially if it was in the blurry fuzzy zone. If it's more than a one-off or if she gets that drunk regularly, you might want to talk to her about cutting it down drastically. If she's getting that drunk regularly (even if she doesnt happen to have slept with someone before), she has a problem.

arsenaltilidie · 13/10/2014 22:35

The whole consent thing sounds like a red herring.

She was drunk and she accidentally fell on another men's penis.

Highway65 · 13/10/2014 22:37

In a word, no. We've all been boozy and had men come on to us. But you still know right from wrong.

Unless unable to make a decision for yourself because you are too drunk to function? Scary situation and a whole other story. Do you have the full circumstances of how it happened? "I was drunk" isn't enough of a reason!

Fairenuff · 13/10/2014 22:39

Or do you, when blind drunk, bear responsibillity for hurting other people by neglect (forgetting to feed a baby) or by accident but not for any sexual conduct?

I see what you're getting at. In simple terms you do bear responsibility for actions that you choose to take. So if she hurt a baby or someone else or was drunk driving, yes she would be responsible.

But if she passed out through drink and someone had sex on her body, no she is not responsible, that is rape.

That's the difference.

Now, OP says she was conscious but we don't know if she was able to give consent, or indeed did give consent.

Bifauxnen · 13/10/2014 22:42

There's not enough information to formulate a helpful reply, just enough to cause a bunfight.

Fairenuff · 13/10/2014 22:45

Yes, just enough drip feeding to keep it going too.

Drumdrum60 · 13/10/2014 23:19

No

AnyFucker · 13/10/2014 23:58

OP is on the stir, people.

sykadelic · 14/10/2014 00:12

Fairenuff Mon 13-Oct-14 22:01:37

And no, she can't be a rapist because she doesn't have a penis.

Whether a rapist has a penis or not is not a factor in the definition of rape.

I certainly hope you're joking.

AnyFucker · 14/10/2014 00:14

From the Rape Crisis website...

Current legal definition of rape

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 (the Act) came into force on the 1st May 2004. The purpose of the Act was to strengthen and modernise the law on sexual offences, whilst improving preventative measures and the protection of individuals from sexual offenders. The Act extends the definition of rape to include the penetration by a penis of the vagina, anus or mouth of another person. The 2003 Act also updates the law about consent and belief in consent.

The word 'consent' in the context of the offence of rape is now defined in the Sexual Offences Act 2003. A person consents if she or he agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice. The essence of this definition is the agreement by choice. The law does not require the victim to have physically resisted in order to prove a lack of consent. The question of whether the victim consented is a matter for the jury to decide, although the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) considers this issue very carefully throughout the life of a case.