Please please help me come out of this as the Sensible One - PIL

[keepingwithitjustabout]

Bear with me. NC as a regular and can't give out too many identifying details.

DP has difficult relationship with his DF. His childhood was not good. DFIL and DMIL split when DP was v young and DMIL left. DFIL and DMIL haven't spoken since. Bad behaviour all round to put it mildly. DP did not know how to clean his teeth at 9. DP put in 'remedial' classes even though not stupid, classed as 'lazy' in school reports. DP has never heard his dad approve of him or say he is proud (though we know FIL boasts about him to others)

There is a DSMIL and DSCs (last one flown nest recently).

DP has turbulent relationship with DF. he does not behave well when around him. There is regression to power struggles from way back. DFIL is bombastic, dresses up insults in joshing, criticises, controls and manipulates every situation. This causes conflict between me and DP when we are with them.

Now we have DCs, I've found him more and more difficult. There is a culture of blame in the family. I've been accused of all sorts over the years, but the last time we stayed I vowed to go NC.

One of our DCs is in assessment for ASD/ADHD (he doesn't know this). this DC is impulsive, hyperactive, boisterous, and oppositional. Always has been. Other DCS similar but not so much. FIL has got very angry in past about DC1 not eating what he has cooked, and refused to let DC1 make choices about it (like giving gravy or ketchup when there is no way in hell would eat it). Apparently 'in my day you were glad to get food'. DPs younger siblings don't have a great relationship with food (understatement).

Anyway we (me) are bad parents, let him 'get away' with things, DC1 is going to end up in jail, we are abusing DC1 because we don't make DC1 have milk at every opportunity (8YO!), we shouldn't let him have chocolate, we can't ask HIM not to give DC chocolate, etc etc.

Also DP has told me some of the things he says about me, and "when are you going to get rid of that fucking bitch and get someone younger in" is just one example, of a great many.

After our last visit DP had a call from FIL saying we weren't welcome there, that we were bad parents, and worse.

DP has had to speak to his DF since because otherwise he would be unable to speak to other members of family. Also DF started leaving nasty messages etc when he didn't return calls. FIL rings him regularly and talks about himself, never asks about his GCs. I haven't spoken to him for over a year.

They are staying in our city this week. They want to see GCs. I have said DP should take them to see them one night and I won't go. I don't want to stop them seeing GPs. I don't want him in my house, I don't want to see him, and I don't really want to speak to him because I know I might be rude to him - and I'd be the bad guy then. I don't want to be in the presence of FIL and DP as DP regresses to a teenager, and is desperate for approval.

He has called me a couple of times now to try and arrange to see DCs, and I haven't picked up and I don't know what to do. I don't trust myself to speak to him TBH. I don't want to come out of this as the obstructive one either. I want to be the sensible one. Trouble is I'm a bit ground down by the DC behaviour and I fear I will be cast as 'highly strung and paranoid' anyway if I see them. I can't tell them about what we are going through with DC1 because they are proven sceptics of mental health issues.

There is form for him phoning me, having a 'reasonable' conversation, then calling DP and saying what a bitch I've been.

Do I have to suck it up and be nice to him as its DPs battle?

I thought if he caught me on the phone I might just be honest and smile as I say 'I think it best you see the DCs without me, we don't always get on do we?" but not sure I can pull it off.

I think you are being very restrained and generous, considering.

Why not just let dp call him when he gets in, saying he saw there was a 'missed call' from his number, and he can talk to him, and, if he wants to, arrange to meet them somewhere as you have suggested.

Not sure why dp can't speak to rest of his family except through his father though? Surely if they've now left home, they are adults and can choose who they communicate with, themselves ?

It isn't for you to have to deal with this shit.

What does DP say when his father speaks about you like that?

Why does he want to maintain any contact with this man, considering their terrible relationship?

You aren't obliged to answer the phone to anybody. You have made it clear that you won't be involved with this man. If you partner wants to be, for god knows what reason, then it is up to him to organise it.

If, by some freak coincidence you do answer the phone to him, just tell him calmly "You need to speak to your son about arranging to see the children. I dislike you intensely, and am perfectly aware that the feeling is mutual. I see no reason for us to speak. Bye" then hang up.

You don't need to pander to this absolute twat of a man. You are avoiding him, which is fine, but that doesn't mean you need to play nice if your paths cross. If your DP wants to keep this man in his life it's his responsibility.

No, of course you don't have to suck it up. Just let your partner arrange anything if that's what he wants to do, you don't have to be involved and you don't have to have him at your house if that's what you want.

Sounds like you'd both be best going no contact to be honest.

He's incredibly manipulative. family is 300 miles away and most of them are there. They are only ones with room for people to stay. Their house is a 'hub' and everything has to revolve around it or toys out of the pram. He's Matriarch and Patriarch in one as he does the cooking. He stages family parties and pussyfoots around invites so he can say we 'invited ourselves', then pisses about with who is staying in what room . Makes us feel unwelcome generally.

Why do you want your children to see him? It sounds like the children are unlikely to enjoy any time with him especially if they meet up for a meal etc. is it fair to expect your child with asd to spend time with an adult who not only does not understand his needs but insists on foisting his own beliefs onto that child?

I'd tell him straight "I don't want to meet up with you, I find it very stressful and I don't like how you judge my parenting and criticise my child without even bothering to be educated about the issues he has."

Just text or email if you feel you can't talk to him. I sent a very similar email to my own in-laws but it wasn't nearly so polite .

Oh and agree that kids wouldn't be going either.

Sounds horrendous. And why someone who never got around to teaching his own son to brush his teeth would think he's entitled to lecture anyone on child rearing is a mystery. I am a bit puzzled as to why DP can't communicate with the extended family without going through his father?

Anyway it's up to DP to arrange for his father to see the DCs though DS1 already gets picked on and it really just bolsters the old man's ego if he thinks he gets to lay the law down. I don't suppose you would entertain a total stranger being this obnoxious so beats me why a blood relative holds so much influence.

Don't be the messenger between DP and his horrible parent. Ask DP not to update you on insults. Keeping toxic relationships going just so your DCs have at least one grandparent is imo not doing them any favours.

He's very charismatic and has been very good one to one with small DCs. Teenagers not so much. They want to see him, and I desperately want to come out of this the sensible one.

They won't come to harm from him short term, and in fact if he finds that they behave similar without me to when I am around 'making' them do it he might not be so able to say I am mad. He once phoned my DP to say he'd seen I'd 'liked' an article in Huffington Post that at least three of my friends had liked. It was about sometimes finding your children's behaviour difficult. He told my DP I was a psycho and needed committing. I have him on Facebook on a high privacy setting now so I can see what he's up to.

Is your DP capable of recognising the problems with his relationship with his father?

I really think the only way out of the situation is to reduce contact to a minimum, but that does require your DP to feel able to accept that the relationship is beyond reasonable hope of salvage, which is a lot for anyone to accept specially when he was raised by only one parent. There's a huge investment in that relationship, and it's a big step to accept that it is never going to be what it ought to be.

You don't have to stay at FILs house. You don't have to go to his fmaily parties. He has made your DP believe that it is the only option, but from an outsiders point of view that is simply not true.

You could stay in a travel lodge. You could have people come to visit you instead. You could write, email, text, skype, absolutely anything, quite separate from FILs little power games.

But all of that needs DP to be on the same page - or at least the same volume...

One step back from that would be to put your foot down about the children, and let DP visit and see them if he doesn't feel able to cut the cord, but not with the children. They are not being helped by having a relationship with someone this unpleasant - blood doesn't trump being a git.

He doesn't 'remember' anything from when DP a child. Was totally different in opposite direction with younger DCs.

He rings DPs DS and says stuff, DP has 'said'. She's wise to it but she lives near him and has DCs that are integrated greatly with their lives.

Fuck being 'the sensible one'.

Anyone that had referred to me as a fucking bitch or similar would no longer be anywhere near me. I would be blocking his number, not just refusing to pick up the phone.

But then I would also rename any partner who tolerated this an ex-partner.

And I wouldn't want my children under his influence even for a short time tbh. Though I guess that would be up to my now-ex-partner!

Refusing to be a doormat isn't being obstructive. FIL is like a big ugly spider sitting in his web. He pretends not to notice you have been nc and phones up specially to tell you you're not welcome at his place fgs. Slandering you left right and centre is his only weapon. Not that I'd care for his evaluation. But I'd wonder what he says about you in front of the DCs. It is easy enough to be affable with little ones, but when they start having their own opinions and voice what they think, he will flick the whip soon enough.

I wonder how many other family members feel about him as you do?

You very likely and fortunately come from a family that is emotionally healthy. Unfortunately not all families are nice and your man's family of origin is very dysfunctional.

Your man likely is mired in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) with regards to his abusive father. Both his parents let him down abjectly and you're seeing the legacies of all that now.

Why should these people actually get to see your children at all if they cannot behave at all decently around them?. There is no good reason for your children to be seeing such people at all. With dysfunctional families, the rule book goes out the window.

You will be the "sensible one" by keeping your children well away from such dysfunctional people. If you find him too difficult/toxic to deal with, its the self same deal for your both vulnerable and defenceless children as well.

You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are not different.

Stop seeing yourself as either the obstructive one or the sensible one. This FIL figure thinks badly of you anyway and nothing will change that mindset. FIL sees you as a threat.

Your man still seeks his dad's approval; approval that will never be given to him. That is partly why he keeps persisting, he perhaps on some level too is still hoping that his dad will apologise for being an utter arse. it will not happen.

Sounds like DF is not above doing a technique called triangulation either; i.e. being the conduit for all other family members.

I would suggest you also read "Toxic Inlaws" by Susan Forward to further understand the dynamics.

attila you are spot on pretty much there. FOGS and triangulation sound v familiar.

His other DCs have their own different issues with him. I am only female in (out) law so far. Thus for many years I've been compared to DPs DM