What do the DH liars think will happen?

[leopardsandspots]

I am a periodic lurker on MN and have been reading the poignant threads where DHs have been unfaithful after long marriages.I am trying to analyse these pathetic DH's and am especially interested in the lying- what do they think will happen eventually? What do these men really want to happen? Do they like living on the edge? is it about risk taking? Do they actually want to be found out?Do they want to have their cake and eat it literally for ever eventually hoping they will go to their grave with both a wife and mistress? Are they just thick and think their tissue of lies will never be unravelled? Do they think they'll get away with it? Do they want to end marriages but are too cowardly to do so without lining up an alternative?

I am asking partly because I feel so much for one of the posters on here with an unfaithful DHs,and also because of my experiences about my own DH and lying.

What is preoccupying my thoughts is what do all these men envisage will happen? There is the classic script ....
1, The DH starts an emotional affair, which leads to a physical one.

1. The DHs behaviour changes, and the wife notices.
2. After days or months of confusion,disbelief and agonising the wife eventually starts investigating and gathering evidence via texts,Facebook etc.
3. Invariably with the advice on Mumsnet the wife's investigation is successful,she cracks phone codes etc and finds and keeps the proof, evidence of dialogue and meetings with the OW.

5.The wife then confronts the DH who minimises, continues to conceal his affair, until the wife reveals her proof.Then there's trying to deflect the blame then being all emotional and denying any intention to cause hurt. 6.The wife then throws the DH out in many cases.

1. They have counselling in some cases which may or may not help the marriage to survive. Then either they separate or work on the relationship.

What I want to know is what would happen if the wife decides not to investigate or doesn't find out,do the DHs eventually confess, or ditch the OW?

I just don't understand what the men think will happen when they are in the middle of all the secrets and lies. I Have a personal interest as I somehow chose a DH with a history of lying.I have posted about a year ago about whether his lies are a mountain or a molehill. DHs lying falls short of an affair (at the moment) but I know what he could be capable of if the opportunity presented itself.

To help me understand my potential future situation I am grateful for insights into the male psyche.

Well here's my theory.
I don't think they think at all. Many men are very good at living in the moment, and compartmentalising. They don't necessarily stop and think "where's this going, where will it end, what outcome am I hoping for". They just find themselves in a situation that seems enjoyable, and run with it. As long as it remains manageable then they continue. If they feel guilty, they tell themselves that no one's complaining, so it must be OK.

They separate the different sections of their life, so they can continue being the "perfect" husband and father, as well has having the OW.

Massively generalising here, but I think the male psyche is better suited to blocking things out than women. For example, looking back at relationship traumas on my 20s, whenever women were dumped we would go to a friend, cry, comfort eachother, talk about the relationship, what went wrong, tell ourselves we're better off without them, sit in our pyjamas eating Haagen Daz etc, basically put life on hold for at least a few days. The men on the other hand, would say to a friend "she's dumped me", and friend would say "bad luck mate, coming to the pub?" and off they'd go for a night of beer and football, the ex girlfriend not being mentioned again! So I think it's very possible for a lot of men to continue an affair without any "joined up thinking".

To answer your question about what would happen if the wife never confronted the man - I think it would depend on the OW and what demands she made. A cynical part of me thinks that plenty of men would continue seeing the OW indefinitely, having their cake and eating it. The problems would arise if the OW started making demands, then it all gets too much like hard work.

Anyway, that's my view. I'm very cynical. Although I've never been the OW myself, or been cheated on in a long term relationship, I've seen it in my parents. My father left when I was 2 and has had several marriages since then, being a serial adulterer. My mother had a relationship with a married man for 35 years, until his wife died, and now they're still together but obviously she's no longer the OW. His wife once confronted him, he admitted it, swore it would end, but it never did, and she didn't ask again. I think she chose to ignore it, as he remained a helpful and attentive presence in their family life, and she didn't want to rock the boat.

They are meeting some sort of need. Perhaps an understandable one, perhaps not. Certainly to lie and cheat is utterly unfair and cannot be justified. But I think that many have no intention of ending their marriage. In fact, it is often a way to stay in their marriage. If noone finds out? one or other relationship runs its natural course.

Not sure I feel comfortable limiting the conversation so completely to men. I think cultural circumstance means more men than women have the opportunity to have an affair: they are more likely to have their own money, and more of it, and a separate life outside the home. They are more likely to be confident, overly so. Their relationship with their body and their sexual identity isn't challenged by pregnancy, childbirth, and child rearing. Male gender (masculinity and machoness) and male heterosexuality are laden with ideas that are in concert with sexual infidelity (assertive or aggressive sexuality, sexual 'needs', an inherent biological tendency to diversity, whatever). But all of that said, I think many women are or would be unfaithful. I think fidelity is an inherently ungendered struggle, actually. It's life, it's love and loss, it's lies and deceit, it's getting old. Neither sex has the monopoly on that.

I imagine the type of men who seek out ego boosts / thrills in the form of extra marital affairs are probably so arrogant that they genuinely believe they are (1)capable of keeping it hidden and (2)smart enough to be able to talk their way out of any suspicion.

Add into that a selfishness that enables them to actually blame their long term wife, and hey presto. Cheating Twat Version 1.0.

For those whose wives never have any inclination, I imagine these affairs play out until the OW starts to expect more.

I don't think '2' is at all a given.

My ex cheated on me like he cheated on his ex. For him it's when the woman he's with realises that he's just a big kid and tries to get him to be responsible. He's always looking for the buzz and excitement of the beginning but isn't prepared to put in any work.

I just couldn't be with 2 men at the same time. I may be tempted but to do anything would mean that my relationship is over. Aside from the honourableness of it, I just couldn't pretend and I'm sure most people are the same. I don't know many people irl who have had affairs or been the victim of affairs. People post on here about affairs because it's a relationship forum.

Maybe some of these men won't leave their unsatisfactory marriages because of the consequences. Better in their mind, perhaps, to indulge in some discreet extra-curricular pleasure, than to upset the applecart completely. Same for some women too, I guess.

I'm with jollyphonics men seem to have no comprehension of consequences until they have been caught, and even then the minimalising and revealing only what they think their wives know shows they have no idea how obvious some of their behaviour is.

It's not only affairs but lots of things. My DH swore he had given up smoking following a very serious health scare. Now he comes in smelling of smoke (stood next to someone smoking), leaves ash in the car (someone smoking put their head in the car window ), and hides cigarettes in the shed which the dog takes me to as he always goes there to collect them when he takes the dog out - and then he says I don't have any cigarettes on me when I ask about them - well no they're in the shed FFS!

Men think with their dicks.

What the penis wants, the penis gets. End of, usually.

One of my exes who was with me when he was in a ltr told me that he still loved his girlfriend and didn't want to split up with her and used these words "if she doesn't find out then there is no harm done"
in my defence I wad young and stupid and thought he would leave her. He did eventually but I had no respect for him andbrokeit off.

These men just do what feels good and hope like hell that the sit doesn't hit the fan.
She never found out btw so no harm done, then

Thank you for some insightful articulate posts..
So putting it all together...
-Deceit leading to infidelity isn't just a male issue it is a female issue too.However cultural circumstance,finances and opportunity mean that more men than women have the opportunity to deceive.This is combined with an inherent biological tendency to diversity, otherwise known as thinking with their dicks.

-Married life is hard work and mundane with lots of responsibility,getting older can be a factor, compared to the buzz and excitement of something new, so it's no contest for some. Although it doesn't happen that much,there is just a higher proportion on here because it's a relationship forum, and lots of us here are a concentration of the unlucky ones.

-The lying party doesn't really think that much,they live for the fun of the moment,the ego boost, and compartmentalise and separate things out so they can easily lie to continue an affair without any "joined up thinking". ( I think this is the nub of what I didn't understand.)

• The lying party ,in so far as they do think, rationalise it with a 'if she doesn't find out then there is no harm done' and a combination of arrogance and selfishness, means that they genuinely believe they are smart enough to hide or bluff their way out of any suspicion.

-If there is no discovery then what happens next mostly depends upon the OW. The deceit and affair could continue indefinitely unless the OW starts making demands, then it all may get too much like hard work and end, but if OW doesn't rock the boat then the deceit etc could run on indefinitely.

This has helped me rationalise my thoughts.Thank you!

They don't 'think'. If it ever crosses their minds that it might be a problem they dismiss it because 'she doesn't know so it won't hurt' and further justify it with 'she wouldn't care anyway' (on the grounds that wife of 20 years isn't jumping their bones twice a day).

"-If there is no discovery then what happens next mostly depends upon the OW. The deceit and affair could continue indefinitely unless the OW starts making demands, then it all may get too much like hard work and end, but if OW doesn't rock the boat then the deceit etc could run on indefinitely"

Just to add, IME that is very true. I honestly beleive that H never intended to leave me. I also honestly beleive that OW wanted him to and was attemtping to manipulate events in that direction. When I found out OW was dropped like a hot potato and her response to H on being told I had found out was 'Fucking idiot!'.

This is combined with an inherent biological tendency to diversity, otherwise known as thinking with their dicks.

Well. Either that or imo the idea of that.

Agreed, they don't think.

Who, in their right mind, would actually continue with an affair after thinking long and hard about the fallout?

Living apart from your kids, potentially irreparably damaging your relationship with them for the rest of your life.

Having to pay to upkeep two families and two homes, making a massive financial impact for the next 18 years.

The loss of your marriage and all that entails. No more cosy nights in, no more washing and cleaning done and meals cooked.

Divorce itself costs a fucking fortune.

And who's to say the relationship with ow is going to work out? Meaning that after the first excitement, ow buggers off too and said man is left in a grotty flat fending for himself with children who hate him.

Bloody miserable if you ask me, and yet so many twats men do it anyway.

They can't possibly think it through. It's lose/lose a lot of the time.

I think it's because if somebody makes you that happy, all common sense goes out the window.

Whether you're a man or a woman.

My exh was bloody furious with me for ending the marriage after his affair, he ranted at me that I was stubborn and wanted to be "trendy"
He told me weekly that lots if men have affairs and their wives dint throw them out
He booked a holiday, so we could talk.
I took my sister
I genuinely think he thought his affair was just going to annoy me and we'd row and move on!
How wrong he was!

Cake and eat it I think. They want wifey at home cooking and cleaning and a bit of stuff on the side for a bit of excitement. I don't think a lot of thought is given to consequences.

I think that a lot of it is cake eating. They genuinely think that they are clever enough to get away with having the cosy home life and the exciting sex with "other" as well. I say this about cheaters in general, not men or women specifically.

For me what clinches the "cake eating" theory is that the vast majority of cheaters dont leave their partners for the affair partner (AP). I feel sure that most affairs dont get found out, and of the ones that do it is rare (if MN and my personal experience is anything to go by) that the cheater says "Yes, I have been cheating with AP and I want to leave and be with AP". They say variations on a theme of "I am sorry, I didnt mean it, it just happened, I love you, it was a fantasy that went too far, I couldnt help myself, I was flattered, I was drunk....PLEASE GIVE ME ANOTHER CHANCE!" They dont want to lose the LTR, and I do think that most of them genuinely love their partners but thought they could get away with a bit of extra curricular and "no harm done". I know the thread the OP is referring to and he has followed exactly that pattern, his utter shock when he realised that she knew what he was up to said it all. He didnt think he would lose his marriage, he didnt want to lose his marriage and ironically he will probably suffer more heartache over their break up than she will because he knows he brought it on himself.

The problem with thinking you are so clever that you wont get found out is that human nature makes us complacent. You think that as you have got away with it for 6 months you stop being quite so careful, you make mistakes, your albis stop adding up, you leave the secret phone in the trousers you just asked your wife to wash (yes, my husband did that ), and your behaviour changes. You think you are the same but you are not, and the OH picks up on that and thats when the snooping starts. Only a true sociopath can get away with such deceit without getting found out, because they are the only kind of people truly capable of not having any guilt or fear about what they are doing and so dont have the change in behaviour that normal people have with guilt etc.

The only time I think that cake eaters will leave is when the AP makes it "impossible" for them not to. I am thinking of a particular MNer whose husband left with no notice, clearing out the house and leaving his PG wife for his even more PG mistress. Having followed her threads for the last couple of years and seen the messages he sent her, I dont think he ever planned to leave but the very manipulative AP (and she is!) gave him an ultimatum and he picked the best bet. The one with a nice big house, a good career and of course the enthusiastic shagging. Given a choice I am sure he would have continued with care free affair sex until he got bored and moved on to the next one, she rather screwed it up by getting pregnant. And I am sure he will cheat on her, if he isnt already. He isnt doing so well but the MNer is doing very well as she realised what an abusive selfish shit she is now free of.

Sorry that was a bit of an essay, but in essence, I think it is cake eaters thinking that their OH is stupid enough to not find them out. As I said to my husband on discovering his second affair (I know!) "I am not as stupid as you would like me to be".

Great post Bogey. I absolutely agree.

Although my ex did leave for the ow - because she "listened" and they had fun nights out together and he was the centre of her world (briefly). As opposed to home and family, where he had a small baby and a wife who wasn't coping.

He's the one lonely and regretful now though. As you said, he knows he's the author of his own misfortune, whereas I know I'm better off without him