Really don't know what to do....

[verbeier]

My DH works in sales. He is unfortunately not very good at it. I couldn't count the number he has had in the last 10 years...every six months he comes to me and says "I'm on a performance review" then quickly jumps to the first sales job he sees and the whole process begins again. I find it all incredibly stressful - I work four days a week but due to demands of the job often work from home in the evenings too. He would never do overtime. Ever. He's quite lazy and I think his problem with sales is that he's too nice and wants everyone to be his friend and he does seem to get sales ("did you actively try to meet your targets?" "No"). So, he's up for another performance appraisal and I ask him to please, for the sake of the family to try something else, less cut throat, even for less money. He is 40 and we have never bought a property due to his rollercoaster career. I'm stressed all the time. He agrees...then a few days later tells me he went on a secret job interview and now has another new sales job. I'm fed up. I plead, cry, whatever, he will always just do what he wants. I'm upset he lied to my face about going on a job interview. I'm upset he can't prioritise putting a roof over his kids heads....TEN YEARS of this! Jesus....

I think he needs to grow up and face his responsibilities

We all have to do jobs we hate at some stage in our life

Pleading and crying are clearly not getting through to him. He sounds like one of these sad gambling saps that keep playing, even though they are losing, on the basis that all they need is one big win to make everything better.....

He's deluded if he thinks he's a good salesman but, unfortunately, once your CV is full of sales jobs that's all you get offered. Career changes are notoriously difficult. It is not acceptable for him to keep lying and going to secret interviews behind your back. The only way you're going to get him to take any of this seriously, unfortunately, is to lay down some really nasty consequences to him keeping on doing it. 'Not sure what future we have together if you can't be trusted DH....' for example.

Yes, Cogito's right, as usual - a marital performance review is called for.

Ha! Performance review, I like it. Well...I've done exactly this. He just stood there staring at me....when I tried to get him to talk he just yelled at me "well, it seems your mind is made up, what's the point?". This is why we never fight: I talk, he stares, then he does his usual (very loud) yelling. So I left to go shopping. He seems to genuinely not get that I'm not going to stand for it...he is so reluctant to ever see anyone's else's point of view but his own, I sometimes wonder if he's a bit autistic. And I'm not all "me, me, me", its always "the kids, the kids, the kids". Humpf. Thanks for input, it really does help!! :)

Autism... yeah right... He's a bully. He's set on a particular course of action and too selfish, arrogant and deluded to run it by anyone who might say 'bad idea'. Shouting you down is intimidation pure and simple. Does this guy who is 'too nice' wants to be everyone's best buddy shout other people down or blank them when they dare to disagree with him.... or does he just save that kind of shitty behaviour for you.... the person he's supposed to love?

I feel sorry for him, well both of you really. But it must feel awful to have screwed up so many times and failed in his career. Yes, he needs to try something else, but please remember he must be really hurting. I'm sure the shouting is more wounded animal than bullying.

If he's wounded it's self-inflicted. The OP has wasted 10 years sympathising and accommodating his failure already. Why should she suffer verbal abuse on top?

Yeah, this is it really...his job where he is on review at the moment? This was another "secret job" he accepted without even consulting me. And look how well its gone...its the sly behaviour that really boils my blood. I have no trust in him. Even today when he told me he lied and went for the interview, there was no apology about it- he thought it was fiiiine to lie because he got a job out of it. I wouldn't mind about his career failings if he genuinely tried hard for all these years but I know this man. His idea if working hard and the majority of the world opinion of working hard are vastly different. Over the years, I've bough sales text books, offered to pay for training, suggested going to uni (his supposed life regret) - all of these suggestions ignored. Eeek - and this new job is so much harder than his old job. I'm thinking of getting him to agree this will be the last time - if he loses this job, he leaves sales forever and tries something else. If he's not interested in compromising or discussing with me, well, the writing is on the wall...

OP I think you need to write him a letter. Talking to him is a waste of time and he is immediately defensive. Lay it on the line. Make it a long involved letter listing all the jobs, the same outcomes, how this has made you feel back then, how you feel now, how stressful it all is. Add that you understand it is hard for him too but he really needs to get a grip or else, that you are now being expected to tolerate lies as well etc etc....then your ultimatum. Only write it if you are willing to go through with your ultimatum though. You can't go on like this forever so something has got to change and he isn't even willing to talk about it as an opening gambit.

Cogito I am not suggesting for a moment that she should suffer verbal abuse.

It's all very easy to say he should do something else, but what exactly? It's not easy to just change career just like that in your forties. Perhaps he is actually trying to get jobs in other sectors but not being successful at those secret interviews. Perhaps he's terrified that he can't get a different sort of job. Perhaps he's feeling embarrassed which is why he's not talking about it.

So what skills has he got? What would he be good at? What training or experience might he need to get there? If he's a people-person should he be going for the management level jobs, running a sales team, rather than direct sales? What does he like doing?

Then make a plan with him to get him the traioning/skills and experience he needs, preferably while he's working (because courses cost lots).

I appreciate what you're saying, but I have said to him that if tries to change careers and it doesn't work, at least he tried and id be grateful for that. He doesn't even try! Not initial searches or research or anything. And yes, he's tried management - due to his age, they make assumptions and indicate that they would consider him potentially for management. This all goes flying out the window when he starts working there! I actually think he would be good at some sort of teaching or training. Retail (management or some sort?). Public sector. He moans that the salary would be low, but at least I won't be dreading that phone call! And if he works hard, god forbid, he might even get his very first promotion. I'm sorry if I don't sound sympathetic enough. But this is the man who comes home, helps out with bedtime then watches four hours of TV every. single. night. While I'm logged onto work on the laptop.

And the letter is a good idea too, thanks for that Dinna. And yes, Cogito, you have some very good points. I'm going to have a good night (not with him) and have The Talk in the morning...

Well, if he's not target driven and able to achieve sales, forget retail management!
And I do hope you're not throwing in "public sector" because it's less pressured? Because it isn't. Any public sector could be bin man or lawyer, environmental health officer or youth worker... It's a bit broad!

But leave that aside, it's not for you to decide his career path.

Has he actually been continually employed and paid in this 10 years? It sounds like it? In which case, I'd let him of his secret interview and leave him to it, and tell him you don't want to hear it when he's under review.

The thing is, I have just let him get on with it. But obviously on the occasions when he has been let go (without the warning period in which he usually jumps ship), I can't pay the bills by myself. It has sometimes been long between jobs. And because of this uncertainty, I'm too scared to get a mortgage - I couldn't pay it alone. Our current housing is not ideal.

I myself changed careers, and I would do it again if it was needed.

And no, I wasn't thinking public sector to be a cushy number - I think he would feel more "worthy" in an environment such as that, helping people etc.

And forget teaching if he's lazy!

Hahahahaha... .. .

The suggestion of teaching for someone who is lazy; unwilling to meet targets; who is unable to 'sell'; who likes a bit of 'down time' in the evenings...

Hang on...

Hahahahahaha...

I am not condoning his lying or yelling at all but it seems to me he is stuck in a huge rut that he can't get out of. He is rubbish at his job but to give up what he knows and try something else, having only known failure is incredibly difficult. What if he is no better at the new job? What if nobody will take him on? What if he can't earn as much as before? He doesn't have a great track record and his self esteem must be at rock bottom. I am not so sure he is doing what he wants but the only thing he can think of to do. I suspect that the laziness is partly fear of failure - he holds back because what if you give your job your all and you still don't make it? Quite possibly he doesn't enjoy it either because it can't be fun being under all that pressure. I would suspect that he can't see the point of putting in more hours if he doesn't achieve anything. I also think he sounds a bit depressed?

Getting him to see the rut he is in and how to break out of it will be very hard. You say 'He seems to genuinely not get that I'm not going to stand for it' but you do. You haven't changed your behaviour. You are still there, still pleading with him to stop and not actually carrying out your threats as far as I can tell. If you are serious about one last job and no more then you have to be prepared to go through with whatever it is that to threaten or else everything will continue ad infinitum.

I think a letter would be a good idea. It will give you a chance to make it clear what you want, that you understand it is hard for him but that you want the whole family to be more secure and happy. Tell him the lying has to stop too. He needs to understand that is not acceptable, that his job effects everybody and that it is upsetting to you to watch what is happening.

Then I think you need to offer practical suggestions on ways of changing career. I wonder if he could go and see a careers advisor and work out exactly what would get him motivated again. Does he have interests that could become a job? It has to be his choice but he needs help seeing that there are jobs outside of sales that he might be better at. Careers counselling/advice would help with that. Getting him to see somebody will be difficult but you could make that part of your ultimatum.

One thing is for sure you can't go on like this as I should imagine your respect for the man is diminishing fast and with it love and affection. You have my sympathy but ultimately you are going to have to decide what you are prepared to put up with and then what you are going to do, not just talk about doing if it doesn't happen. Good luck.

I also wonder about the wisdom suggesting training others - that does sound a bit like the old adage 'if you can't do, teach' but that isn't a great basis for becoming a teacher/trainer. Who'd want to be taught to sell by somebody who refuses to read a text book and has failed at his job anyway?

These is really good information/advice...I admit my sympathy towards him is low as the years are passing and the marriage is stagnating a bit. I already am fed up at the inequality in household duties... His job hugely impacts me - I just got through the last year taking every single day the children were off sick so not to interfere with his new job. It doesn't reflect well on my (more stable, better paid) job. Looks like I will be doing it again. I know, I sound like a mug. But I will stand firm - I've had enough. This is the last time. Thanks again for feedback - I had lost all perspective.

Verb you sound like you are at the end of your tether. He would have watched that happening and has done sweet FA about that so you must do what you must do for your own sanity/future.

I used to work in sales. I took a paycut to work in another industry and it probably took me about 4 years to get back to the same point I was at financially. It won't be easy for him to do this but clearly it is necessary. He sounds like a man child. It's horrible to be lied to like that. The OP must he super frustrated.

I agree that writing him a letter maybe a good idea.