Tell me I'm getting upset over nothing?

[certifiable]

DP stays at home with our 3 kids (2 are technically my stepkids from his first marriage, but we have them fulltime and have done for 3 years now).

I work full time, and then some - lots of studying and exams on top. There are times when I have to work weekends, or nights, but generally I go to great effort to get some time off when it is school holidays, usually half term week, at least a week at Easter, and whatever is left in the summer.

DP spends a lot of time with his family and friends when I am at work - for instance if I am working 2 shifts at the weekend, he will usually take all the kids to visit his brother or sister or his friends from uni. I don't have any issues with this - no point them being at home if I am at work most of the time, I guess.

Was talking about next year and how I have submitted my annual leave for February half term. DP says 'oh'. I ask what the matter is - apparently he has already organised to take the kids skiing with his sister and their family. They are in the process of booking it now - he tells me it isn't set in stone, but it seems like it is. He said I can join them if I want to.

He says he assumed that I wouldn't get time off, and that it seemed 'too good an opportunity to pass up'. I feel irked at him not even asking if I would have time off that week, irked that the only way to spend time with them all that week is to join in on this holiday that apparently cannot be cancelled, even though it is not booked yet.

Maybe I'm jealous - but I would never stop them from going or from arranging their own holiday if it turns out I can't take that week...but to not ask me at all first?

Don't really know what to do about it - there isn't much I can do is there. I'll tell him I feel put out / excluded, that it would have been nice to discuss it with me from the beginning, that I am not against us all going away together, and that I would not have been against him taking the kids without me if my annual leave wasn't granted. He'll say I'm making a fuss over nothing, it wasn't his intention to upset me (another of his favourite responses) and that we can all have a nice holiday together if I get my annual leave. He will want to end the discussion there, as there is no point going round and round in circles, he doesn't want to ruin our Friday night together, etc. I will still be upset, I think.

How would he like it if you made holiday plans which excluded him?
Maybe try it and see what he thinks?

He does seem rather dismissive of you, cert ...

This situation is so weird I don't know where to begin.

Okay so first off, I'm not going to say "LTB" over this, but I AM going to say "stand up for yourself". If he doesn't want to talk about it - tough shit. If he doesn't see "the point" in discussing it - tough shit. Sit him down and tell him this has bothered you IMMENSELY, and you want to discuss it. And advise him that dismissive, evasive or downright cliché responses will not go down well.

First of, you need to break this down piece by piece:

1. Why did he plan this, discussing it for months with his family, without mentioning it to you - once - not even in passing. EVEN IF he thought you would be at work that week, did he expect you just to "not notice" that the house was empty? Was he just going to spring it on you the day before?

Him saying nothing to you about it - I would consider to be an indication that he doesn't really see you as very important in the family. More of a nice extra than a full time member.

2. Skiing is not cheap. In fact, skiing is - for time/cost ratio, probably one of the most expensive holidays that you can do. Maybe he has some income coming in too. Big deal. The fact is, why the FUCK is he making decisions - completely on his own - about where significant chunks of family money go - on something completely frivolous - and especially on something that spends FAMILY money on a holiday which is without the FAMILY. Yes, you are a part of the family too.

3. Him planning things to the this extent whilst completely sidelining you is unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. It doesn't matter if he didn't "mean" to upset you. It is OBTUSE to claim not to understand why this bothers you. It completely excludes you from the family, from the decisions about WHERE and WHAT the family does on holiday, and all sorts.

4. Why the fuck would you need to just go and put up and shut up, or not go out of spite? Why can't you say to him "well, it's great that the holiday isn't set in stone, because I don't want to do that. At all. So either YOU can go with your family, and get a break from the kids, and we will go somewhere on our own, or we can ALL go away somewhere else together that WE choose TOGETHER.

Also, I just want to throw this in here for you to think about. If your DP has income from rental properties, and you - as a family unit - can afford to go skiing with THREE children, and not consider it a particularly dramatic expense, do you actually need to work full time?

Could you reduce your hours?

At the moment it seems like your partner considers himself his step kids as family that you are not part of, so he doesn't need to consult or involve you on decisions that THEY make together as a family. Your child together has just fallen into the same pattern.

There's something really wrong here OP, I agree with everything Kaykay says.

It's inconceivable to organise this without your knowledge. Even if he's paying for the whole thing himself, it's still completely unacceptable.

Accusing you of making a fuss about nothing shows he has no understanding as to how serious this is.

Is it possible he is just a bit cowardly and doesn't want to call his sister and complicate what he sees as "her plans." He might have avoided telling you because he knew your work leave would be a bit up in the air and he just didn't want to deal with his sister or you until one side was set in stone (you having leave or holiday booked). My FIL is like this, will do anything to avoid a "what if x, then we have to do y" kind of situation. He just buries his head in the sand until someone else makes the decision.

I'm just saying that it is probably about him and not about how he sees you.

That's a kind interpretation, Runner, but it just doesn't work :( Your indecisive wimp has two reasonable options: allow sister to do all the organisation, including talking to cert; mention holiday to Cert and assume she will make it happen.
What he's actually done is completely ignore Cert as a factor at all.

... so I agree it's about him, but that this tells us how he sees his partner banker.

Tried to talk to him last night. Got a lot of the usual lines. He is a very difficult man to disagree with - he is very much "if you are getting upset / stressed over this, that is an overreaction and I must stay infuriatingly calm and patronising and occupy the moral high ground".

He doesn't really see the issue, still. Says he wanted to spend some time with his sister, that it was an off the cuff suggestion because she said she intended to go skiing with her family in that half term, and then DP said he wanted to go skiing too, thought he would take the kids for the experience, they have been bouncing emails back and forth looking at places to stay but haven't booked anything, and he doesn't want to cancel the plans as he has said he wants to go and doesn't want to let his sister down. Though apparently she would go with her family regardless of whether DP/kids/I came along, so why it would be such a huge let down I don't know.

We are going to talk about it tomorrow night when we have both had chance to think of ways to reconcile this. I said I really begrudge being a part of this holiday now, it could have been a nice idea and fun to plan for everyone but I was excluded. I feel like a bit of a second-class citizen. At bare minimum I want to spend time with the kids in half term, what DP does I really don't care about at the moment!

Thoughts are that either DP can go on his own, we can all spend a week away together (frankly not sure that 4-year old DD would have been that fussed about skiing - she likes snow but seems a lot of faff for some snow), or we can split the week in half and do both (DP long weekend skiing, me with the kids, then long weekend together). Don't even know if it is possible to book long weekends during half term week or if everywhere will have 7 night minimum.

I don't want to reduce my hours at the moment to be honest - it isn't feasible and would really slow down my career progression. In a couple of years, cutting down will be the aim. Asked DP if he has any kind of resentment about me working and he says no, he has done the career thing already and wants to support me. I could understand all this if I never had time for a weekend as a family or a week or two away, but I've always achieved that in the past.

Did he always go on holidays with his sister during his first marriage and is he so used to that set up that he just drifted along into same without thinking

OP - I have to admit that the more I think about this, the more fucked up it seems. I don't know why this man seems to have absolute custody of his children, but presumably he had to ask the children's mother for permission to take them out of the country to go skiing, as otherwise he could be in trouble due to the Hague Convention.

So basically he had enough presence of mind to discuss this with his ex partner and get her permission, but not even MENTION it to you.

Where do you think that leaves you on the priority scale in this man's head?

No offense OP - but can you tell us what you get out of this relationship other than the joy of funding your partner's holidays with his children and his family? Not to mention subsidising his regular trips out to see his family and friends?

There's of course nothing wrong with him spending time with his family and friends, but unless they are all walking distance, then that's another purely luxury expense on his side.

The more you give about the situation, the more it seems that your partner doesn't see this as "family" money, but money to spend on whatever he pleases. Normally at the very suggestion of a holiday, the stay at home parent would discuss it with their partner to check it was viable/affordable/worth the expense/whether they would both be able to go.

To my knowledge they maybe went away together once, but it wasn't a regular thing.

No ex-partner on the scene to ask, he is a widower. He obviously lived a very independent life before I came along, and during the first couple of years of our relationship in fact - but since we moved in together we have always been about family, and by that I mean our little family of 5. That's why this seems so out of character and I can't get my head around it.

Perhaps hard for you to believe but aside from this issue we are happy and our life works for us. It was a conscious decision that I would work and he would stay at home for now - it was equally viable to do the other way around but this is what we decided on. Don't begrudge family / friends but it means I do struggle to see the importance of this holiday from a "spending time with sister/brother-in-law/nieces" point of view, as they all see a lot of each other. I worry about our relationship now though - I have been trying to think what the significance of this is, and what motive he has - as I said upthread I asked if he was bitter about me working but he said no, I don't know what else to think.

Rest assured I am going to stand up for myself on this...but it has to be a very controlled and slow-burn kind of standing up for myself, otherwise it will just add fuel to his "over-reacting" stance.

When you said your daughter was 4, it just made me feel that this holiday is about him and his kids. I'm sure she'd enjoy it, but she'll get more out of it when she's older, it's not really aimed at her is it, it's for him and his older kids.

You've got to tell him straight to get off his high horse because he has done something totally unethical and downright weird and it's making you question the entire relationship. He needs to step up and understand he's done something wrong or you will lose respect and trust in him.

My husband loves skiing but the idea of him organising a holiday for him and the children without mentioning it to me is utterly bizarre. Even more so if I were the the breadwinner. I understand he's got some of his own money, but a holiday is surely discussed as part of the year's finances. Is he paying for it all himself? And if he pays for it, what will you have to cover that he then won't be able to? It's fucking rude and presumptuous apart from anything else.

Xpost - I have a friend who reacts like that and it's infuriating. It's difficult to make someone see who stubbornly does not want to and has a vested interest in not doing.

His 'over-reaction stance' shows he really does not grasp the full seriousness of what he's done.

I never think this is a good idea, but if he really doesn't get it, show him the thread so he can see how horrified we all are.

I hope the weekend clarifies things. You really need to know whether you're joint head of your household - and part of your family - or not. And you need him to understand this, rather than dismissing any thought that disagrees with his own. I'm very cross with him for that.

I feel I should add, here, that some families do operate quite happily as disparate units: one obvious example is where the higher-earning partner works offshore/overseas for long periods. It also works when highly 'independent' partners team up, even living in the same place. But there's glaring difference between those households and what's happening to you - they keep one another up to date with plans, news and activities. It's a question of mutual respect and inclusion.

I'll also add that this kind of family only suits partners who are BOTH happier living semi-detached. If one's entirely detached, or the other craves the usual kind of attachment, they're incompatible.

Some hard thinking for you; I'm sorry. I hope you both come through with much more respect and understanding.

OP - thanks for coming back. The other aspects are the relationship are sometimes really important when you delve a little.

But here I see it's not the case.

I think you are right to treat this seriously: these are not the actions of someone who is truly invested in a relationship to be honest. It's overtly disrespectful. The fact that you say he is dismissive and patronising of your concerns doesn't help.

It might not be that he bitter about you working - to be perfectly honest OP - this guy gets an amazing deal. He gets to hang out with his family and kids, which still maintaining some financial independency through his properties. None of the kids sound young enough to be a huge burden (no screaming babies for instance).