Marriage failing - sad, but wish it would just be over already

[tanyadm]

Not quite sure why I'm posting, just need to rant, really.

I've been with my husband for 10 years, married for nearly 6 - we've got two daughters 4.5 and 18 months.

We went from being really close, to being friends who happened to have children, to now - absolutely nothing. Our relationship has fizzled to nothing, and we haven't really even talked for the last year or so.

I told him in early August that I couldn't see a way forward, or back to how we used to be, and he was adamant that he loved me and wanted to make it work and would try harder to talk. But a few weeks passed, and he stopped talking to me altogether. I told him on 13 September that I wanted a separation, and it has been awful since then - so tense, and he doesn't even make eye contact or spend much time in the same room as me.

I am not a believed in 'staying together for the kids'. I grew up with parents who ended up hating each other, and it's more damaging than having separated parents. I know it's going to be hard for my older daughter, as she is very sensitive and doesn't cope well with change, but I really thought that if we could end our relationship like grown ups, accept that we've both changed and grown too far apart, then we could make sensible arrangements for the girls. It doesn't seem to be going that way, however.

My mum is not very supportive, because she adores my husband - it's all hypocrisy, because she hates my brother in law, and it would be a different story if it was my sister going through this. So despite what she went through, we had an argument the other week because she thinks I should try harder to keep us together, even if it means being in an unhappy marriage.

It's all very sad, but I can't live with someone who doesn't respect me, or show any interest in my life. He's a good dad, and he can continue to be that without us flogging the dead horse that our marriage has become.

That's it really, just needed to get it off my chest.

You've pretty much told him to shape up or ship out. He's not done anything to improve matters, therefore you have nothing to work with. Give yourself a date to decide this is it and stick to it. Tell him the date and see how he responds. That date could be as early as this time next week.

I am not a believed in 'staying together for the kids'. I grew up with parents who ended up hating each other, and it's more damaging than having separated parents.

I wouldn't say this is true. My parents split amicably when I was 4 and my brother 18 months. My brother went completely off the rails as a teenager to the point we thought he'd never come through. In my early 30's I've only just realised that it has impacted on every relationship I've had. Major abandonment issues and anxiety. Of course there are hundreds of thousands of families who won't have been affected in this way but please don't underestimate the effects of even the most amicable of divorces on kids that have had the first few years of their lives with an intact family unit that is suddenly torn apart.

That said, I have been in your position in a previous long term relationship that was heading the way of marriage. I voiced my concerns that we were weren't communicating like we used to, he retreated further into himself until it got to the point where it was decided in my head that I couldn't carry on and I broke free. If he wasn't going to bother fighting for us then why should I? This decision also coincided with my self esteem rocketing due to new job and interests etc. Only one person (my mum) recognised that letting go was a brave move and best for my future. Wishing you lots of luck.

I'm totally nonjudgmental either way, OP. I would say that this distancing after a long relationship is very common and one of the main reason for splits. It sounds like you have good reason to be dissatisfied with your relationship but also that you are both, through fear, stubbornness, resentment or hurt, remaining in your separate corners, unwilling to risk anything more (on his part perhaps) or give anything more (on yours). In such a position it is impossible for a relationship to flourish or continue.

IF both of you wanted to come out of those corners and work incredibly hard to re-connect and risk and give more, there would be a chance. But only a chance. Counselling would be essential, as would talking openly and kindly to each other about you both truly felt. Although it is often reasonable, offering an ultimatum and scolding someone for lack of delivery on promises may be justified, but it leads to more hiding in the corners.

I would suggest reading TOO GOOD TO LEAVE TOO BAD TO STAY by Mira Kirshenbaum and using that to cement your final decision. At the moment you both sound profoundly hurt and alienated by each other and neither able to change the stand-off out of fear or anger.

I feel that having told him you want a separation, you either need to see that through practically or renege on it and try a different approach. Living in a pseudo-relationship with someone who has told you they don't want to be in that relationship is hell for all involved and the worst of both world for everyone. There is no way you are going to see the best of your husband in this situation or move on emotionally and learn if that's what you want.

Is there anyone else involved, or any relationship or partnership you are comparing yourself to? Either another man you like or a couple you know?

hmm, his mother is in charge of everything and it sounds like he defaults to you being in charge of everything, and then resents it and does this passive-aggressive sniping but doesn't know how to step up and take more responsibility. Amazing how history repeats! If this really is what's happening (and what do I know, really) sounds like your marriage depends on somehow unlocking his self esteem. If that's possible, and if its not too late from your pov!

but on the other hand freckles. I have parents who didn't divorce and I dealt with slamming doors, late night arguments, alcoholism, and suicide attempts. Which quite obviousl affected my adult life.

Parents can fuck you up regardless of whether they are married to each other or not.

So, I opened up conversation with him last night. He doesn't feel there's anything to fight for if I really think separation is an option, and at no point did he say "Yes, I still love you, I'm willing to try really hard".

He said the reason he has not spoken to me for the last few weeks is because he has gone through a range of emotions, and he didn't want to get angry and say things he didn't mean.

I actually wish he had, because at least I would have known what was going on his head a bit better, which is at the root of all the problems.

I'm going up to my sister's with the girls for a few days next week for my birthday, so at least we'll get a break and he can clear his head and sort himself out.

amazing you are right, my own divorced when I was 20 and although it was sad, I realised a few years later that they should have done it years before. they had been fighting ever since I was 5.
Tanya I only advised Relate etc. because I know how tough it is to go through a divorce when there are kids involved. A friend of mine divorced her husband because she said he was boring and unemotional, then found out later that he was aspergic and loved her deeply but could never express it. Not helpful at the time, but years later she really wished she had stayed with him. From your OP I wondered the same about your OH. Then reading about his childhood, I think he needs a therapist.

Perhaps you could do what my sister made me do. (she is a counsellor) I had to write down on one side of a piece of paper all the pluses, and on the other, all the minuses. As soon as the minus side got longer, she said that was the time to start thinking of going. So I did. It was dreadful at the time, but I am very happy now.

His marriage, I meant, not childhood!

Hi madeofkent,

Yes, my husband probably would benefit from individual counselling, to be honest, he does need to deal with his own issues, and I did support him through a bad episode of depression relatively early in our relationship, but obviously I'm not equipped to help him with more deep-rooted issues.

We agreed last night that we couldn't see ourselves being together when we were elderly. A bit of me thinks that we have just changed too much, and our personalities and wishes have diverged too far from each other.

Who knows, maybe time apart will make us realise what we had, or we'll realise that it was the right thing to do and we will be happier moving on. At this point in time, it seems unlikely that living together will be workable, and we need to do what is in the girls' best interests.

Oh, and I wasn't being flippant or ungrateful at the Relate suggestion - it was something I looked into a few months ago, just that it's been really helpful putting things down here, and hearing about other people's experiences and views! x

I also just had an interesting conversation with a colleague, and said out loud for the first time, that when I've thought about my husband moving on and meeting someone else, my feelings of jealousy haven't been about him, but at the prospect of another woman having involvement with my daughters. I suppose that's a bit telling.

Op, it sounds like you have a millstone to carry with him in your life. You need to set yourself free of him dragging you down. I don't understand how someone can just not speak it the other person, and give them the cold shoulder.

He sounds like he doesn't want to make the effort, and I think pp are wrong to suggest that you should be the one making the effort, when he can't be bothered.

What actually go me, was when you said you were in hospital, and he couldn't be arsed to take the day off. It actually sounds like something my h would do, and has done. So may be you aren't alone on that score.

Thanks Longdistance, like I said, he is not a bad person, I think our relationship really has just come to a natural end, and it's causing too much stress.

I must admit I made excuses for him at the time of the operation, mostly to protect myself from thinking too much about it, but I was 13 weeks pregnant, and had an operation that could have ended the pregnancy, and got the bus to the hospital (neither of us drive, so that's not the issue), and a taxi home the next day on my own, as he was at work. My mum came down to look after my little girl when she wasn't at nursery.

Obviously everything worked out ok and we have a wonderful, healthy, bright 18 month old now, despite all the drugs, and actually three hospital episodes in those first 13 weeks, including one emergency admission.

The truth is I haven't felt supported in a long time, and I feel like I do a lot on my own, so we may as well make it official.

tanyadm your last line "I feel like I do a lot on my own, so we may as well make it official" really struck a chord. I finally - and with a lot of sadness and guilt - left a relationship of 14 years for much of the same reasons as you describe (and with my mother adding to the guilt like yours). But there is nothing so awful as feeling lonely when you're "with" someone. It has been so much better being alone. The last 7 years have been challenging, but I am so much more content and have better support from new friends. I also genuinely love spending time alone

I feel that you have made your mind up, tanya, and you that you need to express this to your husband and see it through so he knows where he stands and you start to feel its reality.

I guess what I'm saying is: take the leap. You know that you're living no sort of life now. All the very best

Thought I should post a wee update...

Not vastly further forward. I did have the conversation with him, and on the Saturday, had mentioned access arrangements while we were waiting at our older daughter's dance class. Bizarrely, on the Sunday, he went to hug me, and said that our conversations had given him hope and he was so happy. I put him straight, and had to go out that day.

The following weekend I was at my sister's for my birthday, and he texted to say that he hadn't got me a present from him or the girls, but that he had made a charitable donation in their names instead. He didn't answer his phone on the Sunday when I was phoning so that they could speak to him.

Since then, he has been avoiding the conversation, even when I have specifically said we need to sit down and make arrangements for the future - i.e. for him to move out. He makes every effort to not be in the same room as me. He is not very proactive, so it's going to come to me sending him suitable properties for him to move to.

All very stressful, and I'm exhausted with it all. Essentially we're living separate lives, just under the same roof for the moment.

That sounds awful.

I tried it for a while with my ex and it was dreadful. Things improved dramatically when he actually left.

I don't think it's your responsibility to sort out somewhere for him to live

He didn't even get you a small token to open for your birthday from your DC??? That, right there, is unforgivable in my book.
Not even a tiny thought for you on your birthday.
I'd be livid!!!
You'll get there.
Just do what you need to do.

Noooo, it caused much hilarity between me, my brother and sister, and I do think "charitable donation" is going to be a standing family joke for a long time to come! I'm not bothered about not getting anything, but my older daughter does love the whole ceremony of wrapping and giving gifts, so a bar of chocolate would have done...... He got generic cards from them (not 'mum / mummy' ones), and that was it.

We are actually getting on ok in terms of being civil to each other, but that's the extent of it.

How are things Tanya ? Iv just read this thread as I'm at a similar crossroads . I have a thread myself . Divorce due to vile narcassist mother in law is my thread. I hope you are doing ok anyways