Was this totally inappropriate behaviour by my mum or is this something that is normal?

[treeoutsidemyhouse]

I have always had a very difficult relationship with my parents. So much so that I have been NC with both of them for over a year (something that has been been very painful but also the best thing I have ever done).

My dad deserves a thread on his own - he was cold, distant, critical, verbally abusive, angry, aggressive etc.

My mum always told me that he was "great Dad" and that I should shut up. He could never do any wrong and she has a great relationship with him etc.

She is someone who was always very passive aggressive with me. Very critical, sarcastic, would make fun of me and laugh at me when I was upset or in front of other people. She would never take on board my feelings, didn't care how I felt about anything.

She was also very tactile with me. Even in adulthood. Even though we did not get on, she would always stand to close to me (i.e. literally an inch away from me so if I moved slightly my body would rub up against hers). She would touch my face and my hair. If I had a bit of skin showing under between my socks and my trousers she would touch my skin or tickle my back or stomach if my t shirt rode up etc. I would always find this unbearably violating and irritating and she would never stop doing it even though I made it clear that I did not like it.

I was thinking today about something that she did when I was a child. She always used to enjoy coming into the bath with me. I remember when I was much younger - until the age of about six, she would let my play with her breasts or with her pubic hair "down there".

When I had baths on my own, she would come and join me. We had no lock on the bathroom door. This continued until I was in secondary school - perhaps until I was about 14 or 15. I remember as a teenager I started bathing always in a swimming costume (to preserve my modesty I suppose) and it got to a point where when I was a bout 15/16 I did not wash at all. Sometimes not washing for literally weeks at a time. My skin was literally grey I was so dirty. I would wash my hair in the sink. People at school noticed and I got (unsurprisingly) bullied and ostracised because of it.

Now that I am an adult in the 30s with a child myself, I look back and think this is really inappropriate. I've literally had a light bulb moment about it. This is not normal is it? Or is it? Was this abuse?

Whenever I have expressed a view that I do not like the things either my mum or dad do to or around me, she says that I am mentally ill.

I'd like some other opinions about this please. It is also helpful to get it out of my head.

Wow. You poor thing. No, it's not ok at all. It's emotional abuse at a minimum, possible narcissism? Certainly she was meeting her own emotional needs for physical touching whilst ignoring yours. The playing with breasts and pubic hair is seriously off. I'm sorry to say but it rings huge alarm bells for sexual abuse.

Another thing she used to do when I was a teenager was buy me ill fitting clothes that did not fit. Looking at pictures of me as a teenager, I was extremely thin (until I had my DD, size 6 would often be baggy on me because I just did not eat very much and during my pregnancy needed specialist consultant care because my BMI was so low). She would buy me size 12 and 14 clothes. I would have to bunch up trousers and skirts with hair bands so that they did not fall around my ankles. She always had nice clothes, as did my brother as my Dad had a reasonably good job. I look back at this too and think that I clearly looked crap, why would someone do this to their own child unless they really did not like them? I would not for example let my DD go out in crap or ill fitting clothes.

That was woefully obtrusive and inappropriate behaviour! (Understatement). Up to the time my mam died at 69 I hadn't even seen her pubic hair, never mind touched it.

You're right to have gone NC, there's something very, very wrong with her.

"She would buy me size 12 and 14 clothes. I would have to bunch up trousers and skirts with hair bands so that they did not fall around my ankles. She always had nice clothes, as did my brother as my Dad had a reasonably good job. I look back at this too and think that I clearly looked crap, why would someone do this to their own child unless they really did not like them?"

She wanted to ensure you were not attractive to other people, anyone else apart from her.

Sorry, its all coming back to me now. I also remember all throughout my childhood, my hair was always matted. It would literally be just one massive knot. This is another thing that I think is really off as I would never allow my DD to go to nursery or school with hair that was anything other than clean and brushed.

oh tree have an un MNety hug (()). No that sounds very emotionally abusive and actually physically abusive too. I am not surprised that you are NC, your parents sound like horrible people. Please don't think that this is in ANY way a reflection on you. Are you on the stately home threads? They are good for speaking to others with difficult parents.

Do you think therapy could be an option for you? It's not for everyone, but perhaps the option to talk through your childhood and your feelings about your parents in a safe space might help you sort things out in your head?

this is way, way off normal tree.

She's got some very serious issues. Spending your teen years dirty sounds the best possible option to me, if it kept her away. Good survival mechanism for yourself.

it sounds as if she actually hates you. The criticism and undermining and shaming; the clothes; telling you you're mentally ill. The physical closeness is the thing that stands out as being really odd. But there's no doubt you've survived an appalling upbringing.

Without doubt you are doing the right thing in keeping well away from her. Sometimes healing is possible in a relationship, after many years and if both sides want it, but here it sounds impossible especially with all the criticism and the makign out you're mentallly ill. I do think you need some pretty serious therapy, if you can possibly get it.

Wishing you good luck and healing tree

No, not normal!

DD is 16 months and will often sit on my when I'm lying on the couch. She love to pull people's shirts up and poke their belly buttons, and on occasion she has also pulled down the waist of my sweatpants (because I'm lazy and rarely get properly dressed on the weekends ) and a few times in doing so she's seen my pubic hair and tried to touch it. I always just say "no, private" or something, remove her hand and sit up.

I can't imagine anyone doing what your mum did, it all sounds terrible. I'm so sorry.

Sit on *me

What you have described was absolutely sexually inappropriate. She was very sly though and got you to touch her in the bath rather than the other wY around, how disgusting. I would certainly class what she did as sexual abuse.

I am so sorry that you had to go through this as a child. I would consider reporting her for that.

The calling you mentally ill was her pre-emptive strike against being called out about what she did to you. "See? She's nuts. I told you she was". Also, it would be an attempt to undermine what you already remembered, knew and understood quite well.

I also suggest you find someone to talk to about all this if you think you can. There's an awful lot of really nasty stuff that's gone on.

She needs locking up

She sounds awful & yes, abusive

tree So sorry that happened to you, totally inappropriate. Its so hard to admit to yourself these things really happened - as mothers don't abuse do they .
I experienced sexual abuse by my mother too, though she was in her late twenties and thirties when she did it (I was born when she was late teens) and part of me thought, and still does sometimes, that it was just naive behaviour on her behalf, like she didn't realise what she was doing.
She used to get me into her room on a pretext and (really hard to say this ) would then touch herself in front of me. Happened frequently, went on till I left home. Other similar stuff too and started when I was a young child. No dad at home to stop it.
Been nc for a few years since having own dc. Was emotionally and physically abusive too, yet portrayed herself as almost fragile and childlike. V odd woman. Strangely I ended up quite prudish though she was obsessed with ideas of me being a slut etc.
Please do consider reporting to police if you feel up to it.
(Btw have name changed for this).

Oh and Bitter has it. I was the family scapegoat and have been described as mentally ill and had lies told about me- all this ensures that I would be discredited by wider family if anything came out. The police won't take the same view though tree if you decide to report.

What she did was very wrong. Sexually inappropriate and abusive. I say abusive because she failed to teach you about healthy physical boundaries for her own benefit.

You know it was not right. You are being the mother to your dd that she never was to you.

But you must give yourself time to grieve and heal. Could you speak to your GP about a referral for counselling.

I can strongly recommend a book called "The Emotionally Absent Mother" as a way of starting to unravel your emotions toward your mother and what happened.

You did nothing wrong and I could weep for that little girl. But you are now the strong mother. You won.

I probably should have some counselling about this. I had a shitload of counselling a few years ago but because the crap both my parents gave me we didn't even "have time" to get round to this. But also I think I must have blocked it out at the time I was receiving counselling up until quite recently.

I think this still haunts me. Sometimes I am very uncomfortable in my skin and have flashbacks or images in my head of being touched by someone or someone walking in on me in the shower/bath/toilet etc. Even when I am alone at home I get paranoid. Crazy I know.

Another thing my mum used to do all the time would never knock before coming into my bedroom (again I would not have a lock on the door). So she would often come barging in when I was doing something private (getting dressed, changing a sanitary towell - you get the idea). Up until I went NC on them last year, she visited my old flat (she doesn't know where I live now thank god) I also did not have a lock on the bathroom there. I remember telling her very clearly and loudly that I was leaving the living room where we were all sitting to go to the bathroom (as I was so paranoid of her coming in as there was no lock) and yes you guessed it she came in. I got very annoyed with her and she claimed she did not hear me.

This intrusion has left me feeling very powerless, humiliated and also very paranoid about my personal space. I am quite on edge a lot of the time and quite uncomfortable being naked etc even when i know I am alone in the house or with my boyfriend.

It has really helped me get this out of my system. This is the first time I have ever discussed it.

I also remember as a teenager the shame I felt about the whole bath thing. I was absolutely terrified that my brother would tell people at school about it. I was already the weird, unwashed girl with ill fitting clothes (with absolutely no confidence or self esteem at all) and I was petrified that people would find out and make my life worse

Sorry this is all coming out in chunks but further stuff keeps popping up.

I feel like I couldn't report her to the police or anything like that because firstly it would be too stressful for me right now to do that but also I don't think that anyone would believe me.

My brother was very much the favourite child (my parents hardly made it a secret) who still has a relationship with them. My mum has a close relationship it seems with her side of the family etc. A lot of my female cousins dote on her as she was always really lovely with them, being very supportive to them and being a shoulder to cry on etc.

It feels like they have painted me as the "crazy" one of the family (for a reason?) and I don't think that I would get much support.

You do what you need to to survive. If you feel it is not right to speak to the police either now or ever, then you don't.

I suspect sadly that you are right. Your self-protective mechanism (which was a good one) as a teen will be used as 'proof' that you are mad. So you do what you need to to survive.

Some people are very good at isolating the one they pick on to destroy. Apparently lovely to everyone else, but their inner demons lead them to pour all their viciousness onto someone and isolate and torment them.

I think you need some very skilled psychotherapy tree. The belittling of you combined with the weird physical thing is out of the ordinary and in fact sinister.

tree I understand that continually trying to make sense of what happened to you. Counselling did help me , though I still go over it in my head every so often. I have similar family dynamics, and I've now been ostracised from extended family since going NC. That has been difficult to cope with, esp as I confided the details to one or two of them and they prefer still to pander to her and not be in touch with me. But they say that people side with abusers for a variety of reasons..
I wish you well, it is a difficult journey, but you really are the better person, you wouldn't dream of doing similar to your own dc.
I too feel uncomfortable in my skin, being naked, and with just being a woman sometimes - a sense of shame, but I remind myself that this is about her and not me, she did it for her own warped reasons which were nothing to do with me as a person.