Hague Convention and Pregnancy

[kaykayblue]

Hi all,

This is just a musing of mine really, and I haven't been able to find any information about it online.

I was just wondering, if a woman is pregnant, does she have the right to move countries without the permission of the father? I've seen there's a case in the US which effectively says she can't and it's considered "abduction", but then again they are fucking crazy.

We all know that once a child is born, then the Hague convention applies, but what about this grey area of before the child is born?

I'm not pregnant, and not planning on moving anywhere, but it strikes me that a woman should be able to move wherever she pleases when pregnant. To say that she can't is effectively saying that as soon as she conceives, she loses all autonomy, and is effectively no more than an incubator. It's especially true considering how strictly the Hague Convention is enforced - otherwise a woman would have to move suddenly pretending not to know she was pregnant, and then "discover it" later after the move. It would just seem to be actively encouraging shady behaviour.

Again, this is more an interest in women's rights rather than me needing advice on anything. I find it an interesting question.

I think women can move where they please when pregnant regardless of the father'a location. The baby isn't considered an individual until after birth which is why it is the woman's choice and her choice alone if she wishes to abort her fetus.

I think the rules that apply in the US often are bizarre by our standards. For country that is supposed to stand for liberty etc, they operate some quaint double standards. A quick hunt around suggests there are no such restrictions on pregnant British women.

Thank god. Can you imagine what sort of giant leap backwards it would be if that were the case?

I have to say, reading about all these court cases has REALLY put me off having a baby in my partner's country. I have no worries in my relationship whatsoever, but then you read all these horror stories and it's like....why take the risk though?

No, it doesn't apply in the UK. The Hague convention can only apply once the baby is born, and is therefore established as a separate legal person.

The British legal system, European Court of Human Rights and other institutions often get a bad press but they are stellar compared to a lot of other places.

A pregnant woman is just one person and she can take herself and her body wherever she pleases. Even after a baby is born if it's young enough that you couldn't prove 'habitual residence' she could still take it out of the country permanently.

Chunderella - yea, the case was miller and McKenna. Granted it was their fucked up national law as opposed to international stuff, but still left me with the chills.

I read that article and it's funny it's just ONE story. It always starts with one and you could always be that one.

Plus, they're rich. Rich people are weird.

nypost.com/2014/04/21/bode-miller-reaches-deal-in-messy-custody-battle-for-young-son/

You know how much MNetters hate the Daily Mail because it's more about scaremongering, hatred and evil corporate (paid for) click-throughs than any pretense of truth? The US paper that's mentioned in the same breath is the NY Post.

HTH