Just realised that I am married to a passive - aggressive , anyone else?

[BhearNOW]

Relationship has always been difficult - very much chalk and cheese. I am the extrovert, ambitious, go getting, responsible, fiesty one....he is the introvert, conflict averse, child like, "Mr Nice".

We get on really well from a social/interest pov - but but I dont think I love care or respect him deep down. I have been so frustrated and confused by my feelings because he is so "placid" - but there have been so many challenging life milestones where he hasnt met any normal expectations and I have felt let down. I really dont think that he has any emotional depth or if he has he is unable to express it and/or communicate. Just read the following and it has hit me in the face hard...I think I stay because of FOG - I have 4 kids all in the middle of critical stages of education. Do I just count the days and try to keep a peaceful home until a more appropriate time to splinter my family? The kids will hate me devastating their gentle Dad.

books.google.co.uk/books?id=JIyyid3xRyEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Living+with+the+Passive-Aggressive+Man&cd=1&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Have been to Relate many times but most recently (Jan-March) I have been on my own to try to work through my feelings. Counsellor said to me that "he does not meet my emotional needs" this has stuck in my head but I did not know what she meant - I think I do now. I had planned to separate after GCSE exams - but I got cold feet as I believed he would turn into a sad dirty lonely alcoholic in a flat and I couldnt impose that on my children.

Not sure what I am asking - just can anyone relate?

Hi BhearNOW - the book you linked to is my life pinned down to words on a page. I am currently in the process of separating - DC are 16 and 10 - I waited for GCSEs. You would be amazed how my ex is fighting (EA) for every bit of the life he had no investment in at all. He's now 'devastated' and a 'devoted father'. I also did lots of counselling over the years. I finally gave myself permission to go. I too feared he would be come an alcoholic tramp - he may well - but he is fighting for every penny we own and manipulating the children beyond belief to make them feel sorry for him and live with them as much as possible.

Your OH may not be so downright nasty - or maybe he is? Either way, it's very corrosive to live in a long term situation where your needs are not met and often purposefully thwarted. How do you think this has impacted on you? I can also see how it repeats a familiar childhood pattern for me. Is that true for you as well? Deeply ingrained passive aggression is crazy making. The most important thing is to keep saying what you experience and to start to hold onto it. Do you doubt yourself? Do other people think that he's lovely? Part of being trapped for me was about the way he has portrayed himself and me to friends and family. ..poor lovely sensitive gentle guy - crazy ott woman. Sorry this is one huge paragraph - it's 5 something pm and I'm on my phone. You will find your way x

Why are you staying in a marriage you hate with a man you have no respect for? It's an awful example to set your children.
It's easy to blame him for being passive aggressive and to focus on just one thing your counsellor highlighted.
He probably knows the marriage is over but has many of the worries you do. Do both of you and the children a favour - be honest and if that means divorce then so be it. The children already know you don't love their father.

Ron - I think that I am still here as Kitty says above - thru a corrosive situation. I have not come to the not caring, respecting or loving him overnight -- I am finally here after a very long time of repeated situations.

From his behavior in these situations I think that he feels the same but does not acknowledge it - declares undying love the moment I want to talk about relationship problems.

I know that my children sense that I dont love their quiet gentle father - but I also know that they will hate me for splintering the family. I want to do what is best for them not me. I can muddle thru for another few years. I totally believe that "it is best to be from a broken home than in a broken home" -- but I am not sure that the children would agree - as they dont see anything obvious.....but I agree I should do what I know is best for the children in the long run and not stay due to FOG - I do not want them to think that this is normal or acceptable or a model to copy.

I have has been have not concentrated solely on one thing from the Relate lady. I spent months with her exploring many issues. I am very very aware that a relationship is a dynamic - I have many flaws but just didnt know at the time what "he does not meet your emotional needs" or meant in my situation. I look it that I have high emotional needs (needy?).

Kitty - he is Mr Nice guy in a superficial way - polite, smiley etc - but never does anything kind or compassionate for anyone. He is so conflict averse - our biggest issue has been parenting. He runs around after the children like a fool and does not discipline. He just wants to be "liked" - not even loved. His father was an alcoholic - none of the family admitted it. Spent all their time tap dancing around the bear with a sore head. His mother deluded and also an alcoholic. My father died when I was v young - It was v devasting for the family. My mother was in deep depression for 4 years after and attempted suicide - so I see the patterns - 2 flawed childhoods.

Bhear now i am in the same situation.I feel i get no support in kids discipline just a handy man around the house.This has been bearable while the kids got through school and we were all busy but since his heart attack i hardly recognise the man i now live with.He appears to only have contempt for me and now the Dcs have said i dont know why you are together nor do i !!I was advised to stay by my parents 10 yrs ago.I dont regret it as we were always at work and rubbed along sharing the kids but now i fel lonely and need to re assess my life.Relate described us a opposite ends of the spectrum (he is the laid back but prone to outburst type).

You simply cannot stay for their sake; they won't say, "thanks mum" for doing so. I do not think they will hate you for as you so put it "splintering the family"; its already fractured. They will call you daft instead if you choose to stay and also more damagingly wonder of you why you put him before them during their childhoods.

Muddling through if you choose to for the next several years (and there is never a good time to leave anyway) will basically grind you even further down and will only serve to make an already bad situation a lot worse. You cannot burden a child with a choice that you made.

You and he learnt an awful lot of damaging stuff about relationships when growing up as well which is not altogether surprising either. Perhaps what you have here is really an unhealthy codependent relationship and that is never healthy.

What do you think your children are learning about relationships here; is this really the role model you both want to be teaching them?. They are perceptive and pick up on all the vibes both spoken and unspoken between you two. You may think that they do not see anything obvious but your unhappiness is all too plain for them to see; they know something is amiss and perhaps even blame themselves.

Better to be apart and happier than to be together and miserable as you are now. Your children can still have a relationship with their dad and he will still be their dad post separation.

BhearNOW it is obvious that you have done and are doing a lot of work on yourself in therapy. I am very sorry for your Dad's death when you were small, and that your Mum couldn't take care of your needs. I believe you will free yourself by working on yourself. It's very tempting to view passive aggression as a very neutral way of being because it's covert not overt. But it's no less damaging because it's covert. In my situation it was (is - until he moves out next week) as if there is something toxic in the air. He takes no responsibility for anything. Blames me for everything and subtly poisons the atmosphere and people's perception of me and the situation. But not him...he's done absolutely nothing. ..poor him. It's quite subtle and extremely damaging, both to you and your DC who are being trained. When you understand the process and can name it, you will realise how toxic it is to the family. I think you are well on your way already. X

I can't add any advice about the PA aspect of your post, but I just wanted to echo the comments about staying together for the children.

As someone whose mum did just that (my parents split when I was 16). Don't. Children are far more intuitive than we give them credit for. I don't look back now and feel grateful that they stayed together until I was older, I look back and wish they'd separated much sooner. You don't have to be yelling at each other or living in silence in separate rooms for children to know one or both of you isn't happy, and that's not a great example to be setting.

I wish you all the best.

I could have written your post myself! Yes, the counselor is spot on. My ex was a passive-aggressive as well. Did nothing but expected me to mind read, anticipate and apologize for my 'intended' behavior (delusions where he 'thought' I meant so and so, but in reality, was not even close). I couldn't fart properly by the end!

It's the way they control things without actually getting off their ass to do it. Very manipulative.

As for the kids, they already are aware of things you hope they aren't. Especially the age they are now. A happy mum is a better mum and mum isn't happy, is she?

Good luck! Life is too short to give someone your best years only to have them piss all over them. There are plenty of other people out there, if you choose to, to be with that will be what you want and need and will treat you as well as you deserve to. Not too long ago, I thought this was the saddest thing, to think of all these people in the world breaking up.....but now I see it as there are all these people in the world who thought better of themselves and moved on from destructive relationships.

It's easy to mistake a low key person for a nice person. We naturally use words such as 'gentle' or 'placid' to mean someone peaceful and kind.

But 'quiet' is absolutely not the same as 'good' or 'kind'. Its quite possible to be breathtakingly selfish, or controlling, or aggressive, or seriously careless of others' welfare, without ever raising your voice, or looking like the stereotypical controlling or dangerous person.

I don't know what's happened in your relationship, but he is Mr Nice guy in a superficial way - polite, smiley etc - but never does anything kind or compassionate for anyone - suggests your H is passive rather than kind. And that behaviour isn't nice either, it's just about creating a pleasing appearance.

I have been so frustrated and confused by my feelings because he is so "placid" - but there have been so many challenging life milestones where he hasnt met any normal expectations and I have felt let down. ....This too suggests he doesn't DO anything that is supportive, just looks placid. And this passivity is mistaken for niceness rather than neglect, which may be why you feel conflicted.

track - yes you are correct. Neglect is what is going on. The niceness is what others see - and which I don't experience and which is all that matters.

The children are aware that we have problems - but can only visibly see one side - placid door mat Dad vs crazy ott frustrated Mum. I need to get over what they will think of me (ie now the even badder guy) if I drive the separation and trust that I am doing the right thing for them in the long run (not modelling/accepting a dysfunctional relationship).....and that in time they will come to understand and accept my decision.

They also do not see me at my best whilst I stay -- my emotional energy drained by this relationship so that I diminish as a person and have less to give them.

Being a single parent does not scare me - I was brought up this way with another 5 younger siblings - so although I have no immediate model of what a good marriage looks like I know what a great family is....it was fun and teamwork -- do not have this here.

You are spot on Bhear

Actually - I am so burnt out now - that they do not see crazy ott mother (they used to see my exasperation and frustration - I was a screaming banshee with him - but still he did nothing) - now they just see a mother who is an exhausted depressed husk who barely washes, cannot keep on top of the house, has mentally checked out (chucked out) of the family, resigned from work etc.....he has flapped around whilst I have been in this state for the past few months - keeping the laundry going and making a packed lunch for one of the 4 children -- ranting and banging and screwing and as he goes (never to my face)....the house is nearly falling down and a tip.....but I dont care - I just need to find my energy again to pick myself up to fight and finish this once and for all. I have done this for 30 years. I had him moved out last year after a DV incident involving my son (then 15 - see thread)....but he was here every night, hated being at his Mums and I let him home for Christmas as my 7 year old was crying for him every night....I need to do it this time. Here is my thread from last year....

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1599899-Is-being-an-avoider-a-marriage-deal-breaker

Yes, you need to do it this time. For good.

(I was MistAllChuckingFrighty, btw)

AF....thanks for looking back at the thread and thanks for all of your incredible support and focused advice throughout last Nov 13 crisis it really helped me move on and many of your encouraging words I hear in my head still. My relationship with my son has gone from strength to strength we worked really hard together to revise for his GCSEs and he stepped up and did really well. He now hugs me when I ask (at least twice a day) and says "me too" every time I tell him that I love him (even in front of his mates!). I really dont want my children to think that this is a good relationship -- that they should behave or tolerate behavior in either of the roles we have played in this marriage. I take responsibility for being naive, codep and easily flipping out - so that I would blame myself for every incident as it always ended with me shouting. The worst thing is that I believed I was a bad mother and on many occasions my children have seen me behave badly to their father. But I need to plan my way out of this now....I am not mentally fit to work atm and I recently resigned from my job - so I am not sure what options I have open to me on a practical/logistical level - but emotionally I am nearly comatose/dead....so it has to stop.

I am glad that things are better with your son x

hello, I really don't want to be negative and I hope you work everything out but I've been where you are and I'd like to throw in my two cents.

I've had two exes... first was lovely most of the time but occasionally violent and i was with him for three years. second ex was passive aggressive, with him for ten.

I really don't want to in any way shape or form say domestic violence is good because it's bloody not. BUT!!!! I now realise that (FOR ME) it was FAR less damaging than the weird two faced confusing behaviour that I kept trying to understand and explain to myself. The fact is that the years I spent having my feelings undermined, my plans ruined (but always with an irrefutable excuse....) For me, the slow chipping away of my self esteem was a worse kind of violence than actual blinkin' violence.

i guess what I'm trying to say is I know the place you're in is really bad. More than a lot of people would believe... especially friends and family if they've only seen mr. nice. If you need to be, be sodding selfish!

ps, children are a lot more observant (about how unhappy parents are) than we give them credit for, and they are also (after the obvious initial shock) very pragmatic and quick to adapt to new situations, especially when they realise that said parent is obviously happier!

all my love and i hope everything works out for you xxx

Oh BHear. Now I realise who you are. I posted on one of your earlier threads, under a different NN.

You have to get away from your H, as he is a serious risk to you - as your state of health bears witness.

From your earlier threads, your H comes across as a kind of passive psychopath, for want of a better term. He has no conscience, no willingness to participate in family life, and no interest in you, or feelings of kindness towards you. This is the man who just watched while you were assaulted, isn't he. :(

The husk in your family is actually him. There is a hole where his basic humanity should be. Please get away and stay away, for this is much, much worse than mere passive aggressiveness.

The label doesn't matter. The bloke is a piece of shit.

TrackrBird yes that was me. The temp separation in Nov/Dec 13 had two conditions which he had to fulfil before returning for xmas ...... for him to attend counselling/parenting classes and for him to resolve a money situation involving his brother distributing the proceeds from his fathers will. The first he did 3 sessions over the phone and promptly stopped the minute he got back into the family home. The second I forced him to make the call to his brother while I sat beside him - he has not followed this up since (despite my nagging) and the proceeds of the will have still not been distributed - he is scared of his brother.

I have been v ill over the summer - significant depression, cardiac problems (was rushed to hosp with suspected heath attack) and skin cancer. Both of his parents are alcoholics (father now dead from alcoholism) - he has a problem with drink (he describes himself as a binge drinker)....and thru all the stress I have been under I am now drinking 1/2 bottle of wine a night at home. This wrecks my recovery mentally and physically and is a major health risk. I never buy wine....I tell him not to....but when it gets to 9.30 and I cave in and ask is there any wine around -- he says yeah hold on a minute and gets some from the boot of his car.....and I drink it. I am not blaming him here but sometimes I wonder if he is trying to kill me by passing the poisoned chalice - or keep me docile and a bit pissed and not able to function the next day....or just that he can then get stuck in to the booze.

With the skin cancer - it as a dodgy mole that needed cutting out from my back. Went to all appoints and procedures alone which is fine - they were simple day case. On the 3rd visit I was told it was malignant melanoma and further excision in the surrounding area was required....4th visit I went alone - v painful and had to wait for a few hours after surgery before I could drive myself home. 5th visit was histology results. Remarkably he said he would work from home that day to drive me there. I was flattered. We drove to hosp - he was listening to R4 and pulled up to drop me off at the main entrance. He then said "I am listening to this so will park over there and wait in the car until you come out".... he later tripped himself up to say that he chose to work from home that day as an ex colleague who he didnt like was coming into the office.

But I must get better to sort all of this out and move on. My children deserve a better homelife and to see me happy.

Just wanted to say mouse and Bhear I have recognised my marriage reading your posts. I am currently working on leaving, but struggle to stay resolved - I think because there is no obvious abuse :(

Anyway I'll be following your thread. Good luck leaving him

just realised I posted on the wrong thread!