Is my marriage salvageable?

[JustSoTiredAndSad]

I don't know what to do about my marriage. My H says we have moved apart since DCs were born and that I lost interest in him physically. From my point of view his drinking was the major issue, there were incidents, several months apart but regular, where he would get drunk and abusive. This ended in an incident a few months ago when he was violent and we separated. He stopped drinking completely and I gave it another go. He still isn't drinking and I believe he won't for now but things are still difficult.

He stopped going to AA as he didn't like the religious side of it, and since then he has relapsed into self pity. I was going to Al Anon and getting a lot out of it but stopped as the grief he gave me about looking after DCs for two and a half hours on a Saturday just got beyond me. He feels that I don't show I care about him and don't try to improve things. We have two DCs of 5 and 1 and no family or support, and both often feel ground down by it. Neither of us are good at sleeping and at the moment we sleep in separate rooms. We both seem to end up snappy and irritable especially with DC1 and I just feel so guilty. I want to try to make things work with DH for the DCs but wonder if they are feeling the effects of the tension between us. I want to go to counselling but DH won't consider it, he had a bad experience of it with his ex and won't seem to see that it could be different.

We have both thought about separating and sadly the things keeping us together - DCs, money, practicalities - seem to be about external factors rather than wanting to be with each other at the moment. Deep down I think I do still love him but feel that his behaviour has done a lot of damage to my trust and the current angry, entitled and martyred ways he behaves just drive the wedge in further. For me I think I struggle to communicate openly which frustrates him. Does anyone have any advice or thoughts for me?

If he's violent, angry, blames you and has stopped going to AA then it's highly likely that he will relapse and his behaviour will get worse rather than better. If you decide to go for counselling then please make it personal/individual counselling to help you work out why you feel so tied to someone who is clearly a nasty piece of work. There is no mystery (to me at least) why you would 'struggle to communicate openly' with an abusive drunk....

"I want to try to make things work with DH for the DCs but wonder if they are feeling the effects of the tension between us"

The first part of your sentence whilst noble is also naïve (you cannot burden a child like this, its not their choice). It is not going to work given that he has previously been violent. Do they really need to see any more of their parents imploding marriage, his own private war against you as their mother?. Do you not think that your own self and your children have suffered enough?. Staying for the children never works out well; it teaches them that their life at home was a lie and they won't when older thank you for staying with their dad either. They will wonder of you why you put him before them during their childhoods. They have likely been far more affected by all this than you possibly care to or even want to realise particularly as they get older.

I would cut your losses as of now and move on with your life without your DH in it. He has and continues to put himself and his drinking before you; you had to curtail your attendance at Al-anon meetings because of his giving you crap about looking after the children.

Let him go as of now and start moving forward yourself; your children will also thank you for doing so rather than treading water as you are now.

No obstacle to separation is insurmountable.

The violence was once and was why he stopped drinking. When he was going to AA (and me to Al Anon) it was the best it's been for a long time. I was very disappointed about him stopping - not disapproving as he claims but disappointed as it was doing our relationship good. I don't think he will relapse imminently but I do have concerns why he won't just say to people, I've given up drinking. He says he feels weird and judged and it makes other people react awkwardly but I feel he's leaving the door open by not being honest.

Individual counselling might be good. It would need to be after DCs bed time and I would have to think about how to discuss it with DH, his experience with ex was that the counsellor blamed him for everything (don't react cynically, ex confirms counsellor was really biased).

Thanks Attila. To be clear, the violence was once, he was horrified and completely stopped drinking. The DCs weren't there and knew nothing about it. Some of what you say doesn't feel like an accurate picture of our situation.

At the moment there seems to be a vicious spiral of him feeling unloved and self pitying, and me getting annoyed and depressed by it. I don't want to give up on trying to improve it, but I can't change things on my own.

Obstacles: I probably can't afford the house on my own and definitely can't afford to buy him out. Can't afford anywhere nearby on my own, near DC1's school and DC2's childminder.

You don't have to get permission from your husband to engage in personal counselling. It wouldn't be about him, it would be about you.

No I don't Cogito and I don't feel I have to get permission. But I would tell him where I'm going.

One violent episode is one time too many. The only acceptable level of violence within the relationship is none.

I would state it is unfair to stay together at all in such circumstances; do you really want to teach your children now such a model of a relationship?. They are and will learn about relationships from the two of you.

What makes you think that he has actually stopped drinking, it may well be that he has not given up drinking at all. His behaviour at home along with stopping AA are all red flags here. Your DH has already stated that he wont go to counselling so I would go on my own. He will likely still give you aggro about going to that on your own as well like he did with you attending the Al-anon meetings.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. I would read up on co-dependency, an unhealthy relationship state which often happens in relationships where alcoholism features.

Your children do not actually have to see anything to know that there is something badly wrong here between their mum and dad. They pick up on all the vibes both spoken and unspoken and they see how you are towards each other.

What do you want them to remember about their childhoods?.

I know he's not drinking because I live with him and know what he's like when he is. I know about co dependency, and I don't honestly think that's where I am. At the moment I get companionship and financial stability from the relationship and no, that's not enough. I want it to improve rather than end it.

How does he feel about separating ? do you think he still loves you as you say you believe deep down you love him?. I agree with others, it sounds like counselling without him would do you good. How would you feel if he made a unilateral decision to leave ?

You can't improve someone else's behaviour. If Al-Anon has one message, that's probably it. You can only be the person you are and he can only be the person he is. If he is moody, angry, dissatisfied or self-pitying, you are not in a position to change his emotions. If he's saying he wants to improve but you don't believe him or don't trust him because of his track record, that's not a failing on your part. It doesn't mean you don't care, it means you have had your fingers burned a few too many times. He is telling you that you don't care enough for obvious reasons.

It is very stressful knowing something is very badly wrong but feeling trapped by various obligations such as mortgages, DCs or money. Trying to live with something that isn't right does not work in the long-run.

Sassy I know he's thought about it too. Yes I think he loves me and is unhappy with the situation. If he decided to leave quite honestly I would have mixed emotions. I would be incredibly sad and worried but there would also be relief as it just feels so miserable at the moment. It's not my preferred outcome though.

I just rang the DV service I contacted when the violent incident happened. They were pretty useless but did offer counselling at the time. Now they can't though as I'm not a priority - funding I suppose. They suggested contacting my GP for a referral for CBT. I don't want CBT, the problem is not in my thinking.

As Cogito rightly states you cannot change someone else's behaviour.

You may well want things to improve but does he really?. This person stopped attending AA meetings and dismisses counselling; what is he himself doing to improve things?. His selfishness really holds no bounds.
You really cannot afford to go on like this.

Cog I just don't see any effort from him to change things. Yes he's stopped drinking but that's it. What are the obvious reasons? Not obvious to me I'm afraid.

I think where there's a will there's a way. So if you want to stay in your marriage it looks like the answer to that is yes, whether you will ever be happy in it I would say is unlikely owing to your husbands perspective of you and the relationship.

You have said he has refused counselling and I think until he does something useful like that then he is stuck in his current thought pattern which is a negative one.

I also think that lots of women go through these emotions that you're experiencing when they are facing the fact their marriage might be over. It takes a lot to get your head around.

If you have no support locally how about contacting your local nursery to see if any of there nursery staff offer baby sitting so you and dh can get some time out together?

To discuss the way forward.

Posted too soon!

Thank you Quite. Last few posts give me a lot to think about.

"What are the obvious reasons? Not obvious to me I'm afraid."

Blame-shifting. It's very common for someone to make out that the only reason they treat you so badly is because or something you do or don't do. 'I wouldn't behave this way if you didn't make me so angry'. 'I wouldn't be the way I am if you cared more' It's all responsibility-dodging bullshit.

Given his past behaviour it's not rocket science why you don't trust him and are apprehensive at being intimate. It appears AA was temporary and a half arsed "Look I tried" platitude and now he's done his bit, you are expected to fall back into line/ bed.

It takes two and if he isn't prepared to put the work in and accept his considerable responsibility in how things currently are, then you are wasting your time. This man is telling you loud and clear that your emotional and physical needs are secondary to his and you not falling into line/ bed will be the excuse for whatever esculation in poor behaviour is currently in the works.

Stop asking why he's behaving like an entitled twat and start asking why you put up with it, coz you really don't have to.

You wouldn't run an appointment with your GP by him first would you? Make an appointment with a counsellor for yourself and inform him after the fact.